Most of the time i hear about dieting on this board, when it comes to fats it's said to get "mostly efa's". How is that possible? From what i've read, the only source to really get your EFA's from is fish oils. Flax, walnuts, etc. are converted very poorly and inneficiently to EFA's, a very small amount not worthy of noting.
EFA recomendations
- Thread starter Lance
- Start date
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Fish oil is a good place to get EPA and DHA (both omega 3's)but DHA can be in some infant formula or breast milk, now i would imagine you are weaned so breast milk is probably out (but maybe not 
)and infant formula doesn't have all that much anyhow, so yup fish is the answer.
Omega 6 and 3's are found in Canola (rapeseed) oil, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, flax seed oil, hemp oil. So just mix it up a bit. But most of these have larger quantities of 6 to 3. Some reports say a balance of 5 to 1 (Omega 6 to 3) or less is the most beneficial, and in today's world it is probably a whole lot easier just to buy some fish oil tabs and be done with it.
)and infant formula doesn't have all that much anyhow, so yup fish is the answer.Omega 6 and 3's are found in Canola (rapeseed) oil, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, flax seed oil, hemp oil. So just mix it up a bit. But most of these have larger quantities of 6 to 3. Some reports say a balance of 5 to 1 (Omega 6 to 3) or less is the most beneficial, and in today's world it is probably a whole lot easier just to buy some fish oil tabs and be done with it.
I was thinking, take the right amount of fish oil caps (i forgot, like 3-4 g's or something, although some say it's a mircale supplement at higher doses), and then just eat the rest of your fats trying to keep clean. Minimize sat's, and ya know, eat good fats. Nuts, olive oil, seeds, etc.
savagebeast
New Member
[b said:
How much are you talking when you say "higher doses"?
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Aaron is right about EFA in fish oil, but fish oil does contain a good amount of EPA and DHA, both omega 3. Flaxseed also contains Omega three in the form of Linolenic (a true EFA), but conversion in the body to DHA isn't the greatest.
From http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml
Aaron would be the one to comment on the papers cited.
Nettleton [1995] reports that alpha-linolenic acid (LNA) can be converted to EPA and DHA, but the efficiency of the conversion is low [Dyerberg, Bang, and Aagard 1980; Sanders and Younger 1981; as cited in Nettleton 1995]. Emken et al. [1994], as cited in Conquer and Holub [1996], report a conversion rate of LNA to DHA of ~5% in adults. Salem et al. [1996] suggest (Table 1, p. 50; see also p. 51) a minimum conversion rate of ~1% from LNA to DHA in infants (0.9 mg of DHA produced from 100 mg precursor).
Kelley et al. [1993] fed volunteers a diet in which 6.3% of calories were from flaxseed oil. (Given the cost of flaxseed oil, this is a large amount and would be expensive.) They observed a statistically significant increase in EPA levels in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMNC) in those receiving flaxseed oil. EPA levels in serum were not affected by flaxseed oil. Regarding DHA levels, no increases (in PBMNC or serum) were seen from flaxseed oil supplementation.
Gerster [1998] is a review article that looks into the issue of whether adults can adequately convert ALA to EPA and DHA. The tables in Gerster [1998, pp. 165-166, 168] list a number of studies that showed a pattern similar to the one described above. That is, flaxseed oil supplementation may increase EPA, but not DHA.
Studies that found no changes in DHA levels from flaxseed oil supplementation: Dyerberg et al. [1980], Singer et al. [1986], Kelley et al. [1993], Cunnane et al. [1995], Mantzioris et al. [1994], Layne et al. [1996].
Studies that reported DHA decreased with flaxseed oil supplementation: Sanders and Roshanai [1983], Allman et al. [1995].
Studies that reported DHA increased with flaxseed oil supplementation: Kestin et al. [1990], and Sanders and Younger [1981].
Gerster also makes the point that fish oils are superior sources for EPA and DHA, and concludes [1998, pp. 159-160]:
For another view, Nettleton reports [1995, pp. 33-34]:
From http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml
Aaron would be the one to comment on the papers cited.
Nettleton [1995] reports that alpha-linolenic acid (LNA) can be converted to EPA and DHA, but the efficiency of the conversion is low [Dyerberg, Bang, and Aagard 1980; Sanders and Younger 1981; as cited in Nettleton 1995]. Emken et al. [1994], as cited in Conquer and Holub [1996], report a conversion rate of LNA to DHA of ~5% in adults. Salem et al. [1996] suggest (Table 1, p. 50; see also p. 51) a minimum conversion rate of ~1% from LNA to DHA in infants (0.9 mg of DHA produced from 100 mg precursor).
Kelley et al. [1993] fed volunteers a diet in which 6.3% of calories were from flaxseed oil. (Given the cost of flaxseed oil, this is a large amount and would be expensive.) They observed a statistically significant increase in EPA levels in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMNC) in those receiving flaxseed oil. EPA levels in serum were not affected by flaxseed oil. Regarding DHA levels, no increases (in PBMNC or serum) were seen from flaxseed oil supplementation.
Gerster [1998] is a review article that looks into the issue of whether adults can adequately convert ALA to EPA and DHA. The tables in Gerster [1998, pp. 165-166, 168] list a number of studies that showed a pattern similar to the one described above. That is, flaxseed oil supplementation may increase EPA, but not DHA.
Studies that found no changes in DHA levels from flaxseed oil supplementation: Dyerberg et al. [1980], Singer et al. [1986], Kelley et al. [1993], Cunnane et al. [1995], Mantzioris et al. [1994], Layne et al. [1996].
Studies that reported DHA decreased with flaxseed oil supplementation: Sanders and Roshanai [1983], Allman et al. [1995].
Studies that reported DHA increased with flaxseed oil supplementation: Kestin et al. [1990], and Sanders and Younger [1981].
Gerster also makes the point that fish oils are superior sources for EPA and DHA, and concludes [1998, pp. 159-160]:
[b said:
For another view, Nettleton reports [1995, pp. 33-34]:
[b said:
So fish oil is a good source of omega 3 but not EFAs, nor is FSO a good source because of the generally low conversion and cost to get the required amounts. So what's the alternative sources? Is supplementing directly with CLA a good idea? It's basically twice as expensive as flax and fish oil for comparable amounts.
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Well what I do is use Flax(1 Tbsp in my Tuna @ Lunch) and Fish Oil (6 Caps in the AM), I used to use CLA (not for EFA) but it was just too expensive after a while.
We'll see what Aaron says??
We'll see what Aaron says??
Yeah, I use the Now Foods fish oil caps. I spread the dose out, 6 caps, 2 caps 3 times a day. Don't know if there's any benefit to dosing either way, I'm just used to divided doses for various reasons. One thing I was wondering about, and maybe Aaron will know, is that I had heard it's always good to take fish oil and similar supplements with a meal that has a good carb content, otherwise the oil gets broken down and used as fuel by the liver. No idea if this is true and I'm not doing it, but it'd be interesting to know how to optimally dose the stuff.[b said:
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
I believe that to be the general concensus.
Clark has a review on PUFA and genetic transciption, that's were I found out about PPARs. It's Journal of Nutrition. 2001;131:1129-1132, if you are interested.
Clark has a review on PUFA and genetic transciption, that's were I found out about PPARs. It's Journal of Nutrition. 2001;131:1129-1132, if you are interested.
I
imported_dkm1987
Guest
Do you happen to know the sources for the Omega's in that 3-6-9?[b said:
Fish oil is a poor source of EFA[b said:
Flaxseed is an excellent source of ALA (an EFA) and LA (another EFA)
however most of hte magic occurs with the longer chain metabolites of the EFAs which include EPA nad DHA
ALA -> EPA -> DHA
Ala is the EFA, EPA and DHA are not essentail at all
CLA in humans is not worth much at all.
I saw a presentation a few years back on some fantastic labelling (isotopic labeled stuff) of ALA in humans. My supervisor had been doing fat research since his pre doctoral days, and had never seen any real evidence that ALA elongated and desaturated into DHA in humans, it didnt change enough with ALA supplemetnation or anything.[b said:
However with this research it showed that ALA will desturate to EPA and DHA, but the levels of DHA are minute and will only really occur when somebody is eating an extrmely low DHA diet.
The only way to significantly increase DHA in humans is Dha suppleemntation, fish oils or similar. EPA is similra but not to hte same extent.
Adequate long chain fatty acidss is somewhere between 1-6grams per day (fish oil) in normal healthy people. The remainder of the PUFA intake should be from a mixture of fats.
Taking in a fixed 3, 6, 9 supplement to try and achieve optimal intake is a waste of space... as the balance from the diet is more important than one small piece of it.