Bulking on low carb with a fat burner

Heavy Duty dude

New Member
I believe there was another thread about bulking on low carb but I couldn't find it
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, so here's the question..

Let's say that someone does a low carb diet - carb timing for instance - and takes a fat burner, would he be able to create a caloric surplus while eating at maintenance, by mobilizing bodyfat?

I'm talking about a low carb since fat burners work better on low carbs.

It could be possible also to use supplements that increases HGH, like glutamine - studies have shown that just 2g of glutamine increases HGH by up to 400%! -.
 
Here is the link.

First of all you should not waste your money on fat burners. There are not even a single study about that they really work with humans.

Second..you cannot burn fat while bulking. Bulking always mean surplus calories. You can change the fat% but not the total amount of fat in you body.

Third...if you mean human growth hormone with HGH you claim is absurd. Where in earth did you find this kind of BS-information?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tcup @ Nov. 03 2005,2:25)]Here  is the link.
First of all you should not waste your money on fat burners. There are not even a single study about that they really work with humans.
not a single study?

Efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine for weight loss and athletic performance: a meta-analysis.

Shekelle PG, Hardy ML, Morton SC, Maglione M, Mojica WA, Suttorp MJ, Rhodes SL, Jungvig L, Gagne J.

Southern California Evidence-based Practice Center-RAND, Santa Monica, Calif 90407-2138, USA. [email protected]

CONTEXT: Ephedra and ephedrine sometimes are used for weight loss or enhanced athletic performance, but the efficacy and safety of these compounds are uncertain. OBJECTIVE: To assess the efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine used for weight loss and enhanced athletic performance. DATA SOURCES: We searched 9 databases using the terms ephedra, ephedrine, adverse effect, side effect, efficacy, effective, and toxic. We included unpublished trials and non-English-language documents. Adverse events reported to the US Food and Drug Administration MedWatch program were assessed. STUDY SELECTION: Eligible studies were controlled trials of ephedra or ephedrine used for weight loss or athletic performance and case reports of adverse events associated with such use. Eligible studies for weight loss were human studies with at least 8 weeks of follow-up; and for athletic performance, those having no minimum follow-up. Eligible case reports documented that ephedra or ephedrine was consumed within 24 hours prior to an adverse event or that ephedrine or an associated product was found in blood or urine, and that other potential causes had been excluded. Of the 530 articles screened, 52 controlled trials and 65 case reports were included in the adverse events analysis. Of more than 18 000 other case reports screened, 284 underwent detailed review. DATA EXTRACTION: Two reviewers independently identified trials of efficacy and safety of ephedra and ephedrine on weight loss or athletic performance; disagreements were resolved by consensus. Case reports were reviewed with explicit and implicit methods. DATA SYNTHESIS: No weight loss trials assessed duration of treatment greater than 6 months. Pooled results for trials comparing placebo with ephedrine (n = 5), ephedrine and caffeine (n = 12), ephedra (n = 1), and ephedra and herbs containing caffeine (n = 4) yielded estimates of weight loss (more than placebo) of 0.6 (95% confidence interval, 0.2-1.0), 1.0 (0.7-1.3), 0.8 (0.4-1.2), and 1.0 (0.6-1.3) kg/mo, respectively. Sensitivity analyses did not substantially alter the latter 3 results. No trials of ephedra and athletic performance were found; 7 trials of ephedrine were too heterogeneous to synthesize. Safety data from 50 trials yielded estimates of 2.2- to 3.6-fold increases in odds of psychiatric, autonomic, or gastrointestinal symptoms, and heart palpitations. Data are insufficient to draw conclusions about adverse events occurring at a rate less than 1.0 per thousand. The majority of case reports are insufficiently documented to allow meaningful assessment. CONCLUSIONS: Ephedrine and ephedra promote modest short-term weight loss (approximately 0.9 kg/mo more than placebo) in clinical trials. There are no data regarding long-term weight loss, and evidence to support use of ephedra for athletic performance is insufficient. Use of ephedra or ephedrine and caffeine is associated with increased risk of psychiatric, autonomic, or gastrointestinal symptoms, and heart palpitations.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tcup @ Nov. 02 2005,7:25)]Second..you cannot burn fat while bulking. Bulking always mean surplus calories. You can change the fat% but not the total amount of fat in you body.
You can't? or Nobody can?

Twice-weekly progressive resistance training decreases abdominal fat and improves insulin sensitivity in older men with type 2 diabetes.

Ibanez J,

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the influence of a twice-weekly progressive resistance training (PRT) program, without a concomitant weight loss diet, on abdominal fat and insulin sensitivity in older men with type 2 diabetes.

RESULTS: After PRT, both leg and arm maximal strength increased significantly by 17.1 and 18.2%, respectively. Visceral and subcutaneous abdominal fat decreased significantly by 10.3% (from 249.5 +/- 97.9 to 225.6 +/- 96.6 cm(3), P < 0.01) and by 11.2% (from 356.0 +/- 127.5 to 308.6 +/- 118.8 cm(3), P < 0.01), respectively, while no changes were observed in body mass. ............Finally, a 15.5% increase in energy intake (from 2,287.1 +/- 354.7 to 2,619.0 +/- 472.1 kcal/day, P < 0.05) was observed. CONCLUSIONS: Two sessions per week of PRT, without a concomitant weight loss diet, significantly improves insulin sensitivity and fasting glycemia and decreases abdominal fat in older men with type 2 diabetes.
 
Aaron.. I meant studies that really show that you should spend lot of money in those fatburners like CLA or C4. Didnt mean ephedrine or anything. I though we were talking about normal "fatburners" you can byu over the counter. Not a very promising results, eh? Ready to pay 50$ or something for a small set of CLA?

DKM...we are not talking about an old man who have diabetes. We are talking about a guy who train (hard?) frequently. Of course responses with overweight no trainers produce significant results.
 
A lot of studies have shown caffeine to increase lipolysis.

I can tell you that personally I see a real difference when I take fat burning supplements. I just take caffeine and glutamine, before my morning cardio. I do low intensity cardio and it really helps. It costs me almost nothing.

Lyle also suggests taking L-tyrosine before cardio.

Well, anyways there are products out there that help even though some are certainly overrated.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Heavy Duty dude @ Nov. 03 2005,12:25)]I just take caffeine and glutamine, before my morning cardio. I do low intensity cardio and it really helps. It costs me almost nothing.
Well I do that too. That works for sure but can you say caffeine is a fat burner?
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I would say it`s a stimulant
 
You may want to have a look at that:
http://www.ironpower.biz/sup/sup_fat.htm

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
FAT REDUCTION

The most common beneficial finding of caffeine use is an increasing in burning of bodyfat as fuel (Costill et al 1978, IVY et al 1979).

Compared with controls up to 100% more bodyfat is burned by the subjects using caffeine.

Caffeine is a powerful lipolytic agent, promoting the breakdown of stored fats. This leads to a dumping of fats (non-esterified fatty acids, NEFA’s) into the blood where they can then be taken up by skeletal muscle to be oxidized.

Caffeine increases lipolysis by increasing blood adrenaline levels, and adrenaline is a potent internal lipolytic hormone (J. Appl Physiol 72:1297, 1992). Adrenaline can activate lipolysis not only from fat cells but also from within fat cells (muscle triglycerides).

When ingested with a meal, caffeine increases the rate at which the food is to be converted into usable energy.

When caffeine is taken between meals, it causes fats to be transferred from deposits in the cells to the bloodstream. Here, as free fatty acids they can be used as energy by most of the organs of the body. (Gilbert 1992).

A high protein, low carbohydrate, low fat diet works best with caffeine for maximum fat burning. A high carbohydrate diet negates the fat-burning effects of caffeine (Weir J et al Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1987; 19:100-106)

Caffeine also raises the activity levels of the body, which can mean that the energy derived from food is used up in exercise rather than be stored as fat. In addition, caffeine stimulates the temperature-regulating centres of the body, which in turn produces an increase in body temperature. To sustain this change, energy that might have otherwise been deposited as fat is used. Thus, even when the body is at rest, a greater amount of food is burned. (Caffeine: The most popular stimulant, Gilbert 1992).

Although caffeine achieves peak blood levels about an hour following oral ingestion, the fat burning response does not begin until 3-4 hours after ingestion. (Weir J et al Med Sci Sports Exer 1987; 19:100-105 Belect S et al Metabolism 1968; 17:702-707).

Most of the drug is removed from the body within 12 hours. However, smoking causes the body to metabolize caffeine 50% faster, whereas other substances can substantially extend caffeine’s life. Oral contraceptives can more than triple the half-life of caffeine. I remember laughing lots of times when being told that eating grapefruits with coffee for breakfast would reduce fat. But now we know it’s true. The bitter compound which is contained in the grapefruit, known as Naringin, will extend caffeine’s life in your body, slowing the breakdown of the Xanthines in the liver (British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology).

This enables a lower dose of caffeine to remain active and give the same effects as a higher dose whose duration of effect has not been extended.

While we’re on the subject of increasing the effects of caffeine, are there any other substances that can be ‘stacked’ with caffeine? Yes, there are. Another legal one is Aspirin. Like caffeine, aspirin is a methylzanthine. Bodybuilders combine Caffeine, Aspirin and Ephedrine in a thermogenic cocktail. Ephedrine is not legal without a prescription in Australia, nor is its herbal precursor Ma Huang or Ephedra herb which are classed S4 drugs. They are on the International Olympic Committees list of banned substances.

On its own, 1/2 an aspirin per day with one of your meals will help prevent the formation of gallstones which some people develop when dieting for weight loss (Dr David Powell 1997).

The thermogenic cocktail of the three drugs promotes fat burning, increasing lean body mass while decreasing muscle breakdown (Dulloo Ag, Nutrition Review 1989; 5(1):7-9). Aspirin taken under these conditions can also have a positive effect on workload capacity and anabolic drive. Methylzanthines potentiate the ephedrine activity by increasing release of the hormone nor-epinephrine (Falk B et al Can. J Physcol Pharmacol 1990; 68:889-892).

The ratio of caffeine to ephedrine is 10:1 (Int J Obesity 17: Suppl 1, 51-578, 1993) in combination with 300mg Aspirin. (This combination is actually patented). Prolonged daily use of Aspirin can blow ulcer holes in your gut. Agents that work like Aspirin (prostaglandin blockade) may exert the same synergistic effect without the risk of finding blood in your stools. Several plant derived compounds share aspirin’s actions, like curcumin from the spice tumeric and gingerols from ginger root.
 
so basically, drinking 1-2 cups of coffee (instead of fat burnerS) on empty stomach then incline threadmill (Brise walk) 20-40min is like best the optimal way to lose fat?
 
It takes longer apparently for the fat burning effect to take place.

I remember a study saying it takes 2 hours. In the link mentionned before they talk about a study that says 3-4 hours.

My personal experience also suggest that it takes more than 20 minutes. 1h seems to be the minimum.

Lyle also says to take caffeine 1-2h before cardio.
 
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