Quality Prohormones
- Thread starter jessejr
- Start date
If you do go with avant labs.. and assuming you plan to use them safely and smartly... I would strongly recommend you join and/or browse around the avant forums as there is tons of info that is highly beneficial. Btw, that board is one of the most balanced, professionally legit/fair, and scientific boards I've ever seen.
Thanks NightOp. I noted a reply from you to another HST member and went straight there. That was a great piece of advice. I haven't had a chance to get all the G2 on cycling this stuff yet.
IM a little suspcious of prohormones because a number of guys at the gymn have taken them with no results. I know these guys are eating right. Maybe they are getting the weak stuff.
Do you know anyone who has had success with these substances? It would be great to get some first hand information from someone who has been on a few prohormone cycles.
IM a little suspcious of prohormones because a number of guys at the gymn have taken them with no results. I know these guys are eating right. Maybe they are getting the weak stuff.
Do you know anyone who has had success with these substances? It would be great to get some first hand information from someone who has been on a few prohormone cycles.
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Once again, i've never done a PH or PS cycle so I can't say from experience... however I can speculate that your "gym people" don't know jack about what they are doing. I would even go as far to say the majority of PH users take plain ol andro (which completely sucks) or one of the other useless and often detrimental PH's out there... for instance andro converts soooo well/easily to estrogen and in order to see any useable amount of test from them one would have to take a very high dose and with that comes very high estrogen. (unless using estrogen/aromatase control drugs... arimidex, etc..)
1-test and 4-ad on the other hand are not crap in my opinion (and in the opinion of virtually every user and non user who is not an idiot.). With this goes the fact that for people who are planning a proper cycle for the first time, a high degree of maturity, responsibility, and research should be applied. Don't dive in if you aren't ready in any of those aspects.. and of course if you aren't old enough (don't wanna spawn an argument here, but comon, I still have to say it).. for me I won't use them until I know that my natural hormone levels are the limiting factor for further growth... Thats why I've never used them and spend most of my time reading about diet/biochemistry and HST.
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Once again, i've never done a PH or PS cycle so I can't say from experience... however I can speculate that your "gym people" don't know jack about what they are doing. I would even go as far to say the majority of PH users take plain ol andro (which completely sucks) or one of the other useless and often detrimental PH's out there... for instance andro converts soooo well/easily to estrogen and in order to see any useable amount of test from them one would have to take a very high dose and with that comes very high estrogen. (unless using estrogen/aromatase control drugs... arimidex, etc..)
1-test and 4-ad on the other hand are not crap in my opinion (and in the opinion of virtually every user and non user who is not an idiot.). With this goes the fact that for people who are planning a proper cycle for the first time, a high degree of maturity, responsibility, and research should be applied. Don't dive in if you aren't ready in any of those aspects.. and of course if you aren't old enough (don't wanna spawn an argument here, but comon, I still have to say it).. for me I won't use them until I know that my natural hormone levels are the limiting factor for further growth... Thats why I've never used them and spend most of my time reading about diet/biochemistry and HST.
NightOp,
You are right, I definitely need to know more before using the pro-hormones. I've been researching this stuff on the WEB attempting to weed out the good from the bad.
Man I wish I was to young to take that stuff. Unfortunately, my "too young" days are gone. When I started bodybuilding things were pretty primitive by today's measures. We just ate a hell of a lot of protien and trained way to hard.
IM not new to hormones. I've juiced in the days it was legal. That is you could get a legal script from a doctor. The goverment in its infiinite wisdom made steriods illegal and pushed it underground. Now folks take it without proper medical supervision.
IM working to get in competive shape again and compete before the clock runs out. Building muscle gets tougher as one get older. So far IM still kicking butt and it seems I actually grow better now, however the science has improved a bunch.
I certainly hope the pro-hormones give things a little boost. IM looking to put things on the fast track and stay legal. If pro-hormones are all hype then I will have to grind away and use the great science that is available today.
Thanks again NightOp, you have been particularly helpful. Hope I can return the favor.
Regards,
Jesse
You are right, I definitely need to know more before using the pro-hormones. I've been researching this stuff on the WEB attempting to weed out the good from the bad.
Man I wish I was to young to take that stuff. Unfortunately, my "too young" days are gone. When I started bodybuilding things were pretty primitive by today's measures. We just ate a hell of a lot of protien and trained way to hard.
IM not new to hormones. I've juiced in the days it was legal. That is you could get a legal script from a doctor. The goverment in its infiinite wisdom made steriods illegal and pushed it underground. Now folks take it without proper medical supervision.
IM working to get in competive shape again and compete before the clock runs out. Building muscle gets tougher as one get older. So far IM still kicking butt and it seems I actually grow better now, however the science has improved a bunch.
I certainly hope the pro-hormones give things a little boost. IM looking to put things on the fast track and stay legal. If pro-hormones are all hype then I will have to grind away and use the great science that is available today.
Thanks again NightOp, you have been particularly helpful. Hope I can return the favor.
Regards,
Jesse
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I see, and your welcome
(I get much more out of these boards than i i'm able to put in) , although I'm far from an expert... no doubt you are learning much from the avant forums as it is full of people who are MUCH more well versed than I on this matter (and many others).
Also, now known that you are not new to steroids, then from my humble opinion, I would recommend a ONE+ cycle (1-test and 4AD in the same product from avant... the 4 ad supplies some plain old test and therefore some estrogen too (via aromatization) which is beneficial of course from a health and sexual function standpoint as well a growth standpoint... minus its effect on SHBG of course). And of course the proper post cycle recovery methods (I would use arimidex/liquidex) which you most likely already have experience with/know about. However, depending on your age and genetics, hair loss and/or prostate problems might be a concern... 1-test is a PS (not a PH, meaning it is a real steroid analog and does not convert to any target hormone.. it is the hormone)... I also believe that it is a pretty strong androgen (moreso than plain test), so possible side effects should not be taken lightly... although i've yet to hear or read of any problems per say. Also, I read in another post that you plan on using 6-oxo, I have not used it but there is alot of feedback on it in the feedback section on the avant forums.. worth checking out if you haven't yet... for me, I'd just use arimidex being that it works for sure (i've also used it btw, but not in regards to a cycle). If legality is a major concern, despite the fact that arimidex is a perscription drug, it of course not scheduled and can be obtained easily from many legit places (online) that only sell such things (meaning they are not illegal steroid suppliers).
<span =''>[b said:
I see, and your welcome
(I get much more out of these boards than i i'm able to put in) , although I'm far from an expert... no doubt you are learning much from the avant forums as it is full of people who are MUCH more well versed than I on this matter (and many others).Also, now known that you are not new to steroids, then from my humble opinion, I would recommend a ONE+ cycle (1-test and 4AD in the same product from avant... the 4 ad supplies some plain old test and therefore some estrogen too (via aromatization) which is beneficial of course from a health and sexual function standpoint as well a growth standpoint... minus its effect on SHBG of course). And of course the proper post cycle recovery methods (I would use arimidex/liquidex) which you most likely already have experience with/know about. However, depending on your age and genetics, hair loss and/or prostate problems might be a concern... 1-test is a PS (not a PH, meaning it is a real steroid analog and does not convert to any target hormone.. it is the hormone)... I also believe that it is a pretty strong androgen (moreso than plain test), so possible side effects should not be taken lightly... although i've yet to hear or read of any problems per say. Also, I read in another post that you plan on using 6-oxo, I have not used it but there is alot of feedback on it in the feedback section on the avant forums.. worth checking out if you haven't yet... for me, I'd just use arimidex being that it works for sure (i've also used it btw, but not in regards to a cycle). If legality is a major concern, despite the fact that arimidex is a perscription drug, it of course not scheduled and can be obtained easily from many legit places (online) that only sell such things (meaning they are not illegal steroid suppliers).
NightOp,
Regarding your comment:
"If legality is a major concern, despite the fact that arimidex is a perscription drug, it of course not scheduled and can be obtained easily from many legit places (online) that only sell such things"
"Arimidex" can be obtained legally without a script. If so I would definitely like to know about these sources. Would like to keep estro in check during cycles 1-test and 4AD.
By the way, thanks for the credit regarding knowing something about steriods. However, I can't claim any detailed knowledge, only general knowledge. When I was taking them, they were legal, so I paid a professional to structure the appropriate therapy. I've always played it safe with this stuff.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Jesse
Regarding your comment:
"If legality is a major concern, despite the fact that arimidex is a perscription drug, it of course not scheduled and can be obtained easily from many legit places (online) that only sell such things"
"Arimidex" can be obtained legally without a script. If so I would definitely like to know about these sources. Would like to keep estro in check during cycles 1-test and 4AD.
By the way, thanks for the credit regarding knowing something about steriods. However, I can't claim any detailed knowledge, only general knowledge. When I was taking them, they were legal, so I paid a professional to structure the appropriate therapy. I've always played it safe with this stuff.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Jesse
Safety is at the forefront for me as well
When I said you can easily obtain Arimidex online, I did not mean to imply it is completely legal... you are technically buying a perscription drug w/o perscription... But in a practicle sense, the DEA doesn't give a rip and as long as you are staying clear of actual AAS sources and only buy from a place that sells non-scheduled pharma/drugs then there is nothing to worry about... heck, customs even allow people to bring in small quantities for "personal" use (at the border) as long as it is not scheduled... regardless of any script for them or lack thereof.
Regardless, 6-oxo does seem to be a sound product, but I myself would use arimidex just because it is pretty cheap (relative to what it once cost) and is very powerful... the same goes for femara although I have never used that.
Also, 1-test does not aromatize into estrogen, the 4AD does however... but that is the purpose of 4AD, to supply some estrogen which is benefical from many standpoints... If you don't want any estrogen during your cycle, just use the ONE product as it contains only 1-test.... there is no point in using ONE+ (which has 1-test and 4AD) if you would be using arimidex with it. Personally I would use the ONE+ because the gains will noticably better and it of course also does not have the many negative effects of a no estrogen cycle (joint pain, emotional problems, lack of water, lowered IGF-1 levels, lowered HDL/LDL ratio... to name a few). If the aromatized estrogen from the 4AD might pose a concern to you in regards to gyno or something like that... then you can always have nolvadex ready and on hand to remedy this (as nolvadex is a breast tissue specific estrogen receptor site blocker). Nolvadex is also easy and cheap to aquire.
When I said you can easily obtain Arimidex online, I did not mean to imply it is completely legal... you are technically buying a perscription drug w/o perscription... But in a practicle sense, the DEA doesn't give a rip and as long as you are staying clear of actual AAS sources and only buy from a place that sells non-scheduled pharma/drugs then there is nothing to worry about... heck, customs even allow people to bring in small quantities for "personal" use (at the border) as long as it is not scheduled... regardless of any script for them or lack thereof.
Regardless, 6-oxo does seem to be a sound product, but I myself would use arimidex just because it is pretty cheap (relative to what it once cost) and is very powerful... the same goes for femara although I have never used that.
Also, 1-test does not aromatize into estrogen, the 4AD does however... but that is the purpose of 4AD, to supply some estrogen which is benefical from many standpoints... If you don't want any estrogen during your cycle, just use the ONE product as it contains only 1-test.... there is no point in using ONE+ (which has 1-test and 4AD) if you would be using arimidex with it. Personally I would use the ONE+ because the gains will noticably better and it of course also does not have the many negative effects of a no estrogen cycle (joint pain, emotional problems, lack of water, lowered IGF-1 levels, lowered HDL/LDL ratio... to name a few). If the aromatized estrogen from the 4AD might pose a concern to you in regards to gyno or something like that... then you can always have nolvadex ready and on hand to remedy this (as nolvadex is a breast tissue specific estrogen receptor site blocker). Nolvadex is also easy and cheap to aquire.
NightOp,
Thanks again for the accurate information regarding 4AD and 1-test. I will check into getting a script for either Arimidex, or Nolvadex. Without a script is a bit gray. Probably better to stay away from that.
You are definitely well read on this stuff. I've found a lot of supporting evidence for your comments elsewhere.
By the way, how are your workouts coming? Do you compete?
Regards,
Jesse
Thanks again for the accurate information regarding 4AD and 1-test. I will check into getting a script for either Arimidex, or Nolvadex. Without a script is a bit gray. Probably better to stay away from that.
You are definitely well read on this stuff. I've found a lot of supporting evidence for your comments elsewhere.
By the way, how are your workouts coming? Do you compete?
Regards,
Jesse
Late to this discussion, but I thought I'd chime in...
I am coming to the end of my first prohormone experiment. I chose Avant Lab's Nor-ADerm. Nor- products don't seem to be that popular, but I think for a beginner they are almost ideal. Very few side effects, except for loss of sex drive (though I actually haven't noticed this at all).
I'm pleased so far with the results. I posted some updates over on the Mind & Muscle (Avant) boards. I'm gonna post final results here, too (since I'm using HST). My press strength is actually up 3% AFTER surgery on my left arm to repair a torn biceps tendon. (I was just hoping to stay close. The fact that I'm lifting more is a big surprise.) My leg strength has increased quite a bit.
I'm probably going to use Nor-ADerm again next HST cycle, at a higher dose and stacked with an oral 4AD product for energy/libido. (Looking at the new Ergopharm Cyclo-Diol Fizz.)
I'm gonna use 6-OXO post-cycle. Can't comment on it yet. And franky, I doubt I even need to use it. I think my gonads are still running.
I suggest reading the MAG-10 thread on incorporating prohormones into HST. Basically you want your PH cycle to end at a point in the HST cycle where your weights are still increasing.
Also, I agree with NightOp re the respectable companies. Avant, Molecular Nutrition and Ergopharm. And of course HSN, if Bryan goes through with making a PH product.
I am coming to the end of my first prohormone experiment. I chose Avant Lab's Nor-ADerm. Nor- products don't seem to be that popular, but I think for a beginner they are almost ideal. Very few side effects, except for loss of sex drive (though I actually haven't noticed this at all).
I'm pleased so far with the results. I posted some updates over on the Mind & Muscle (Avant) boards. I'm gonna post final results here, too (since I'm using HST). My press strength is actually up 3% AFTER surgery on my left arm to repair a torn biceps tendon. (I was just hoping to stay close. The fact that I'm lifting more is a big surprise.) My leg strength has increased quite a bit.
I'm probably going to use Nor-ADerm again next HST cycle, at a higher dose and stacked with an oral 4AD product for energy/libido. (Looking at the new Ergopharm Cyclo-Diol Fizz.)
I'm gonna use 6-OXO post-cycle. Can't comment on it yet. And franky, I doubt I even need to use it. I think my gonads are still running.
I suggest reading the MAG-10 thread on incorporating prohormones into HST. Basically you want your PH cycle to end at a point in the HST cycle where your weights are still increasing.
Also, I agree with NightOp re the respectable companies. Avant, Molecular Nutrition and Ergopharm. And of course HSN, if Bryan goes through with making a PH product.