Calorie Confusion (need help)

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by Zog, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. Zog

    Zog New Member

    I have spent a long time bulking and put on a "little" extra weight and need to cut. I need to know an approximate number of calories per day for a cutting plan.
    I have access to underwater weighing so i know that my Fat Free Mass is 190 with a total wieght of 250 lb. I want to get down to about 215. My chief concern if maintaining muscle I really don't care if the weight loss is slow as long as I'm maintaining or slightly gaining muscle.
    My current idea is to eat about 3200 calories a day broken up to 6-7 small meals with a ratio of 65% carbs 20 % protein and 15% Fat. I will also stay on creatine even though i don't know if that matters.
    HST 3 day a week
    About 500 calories worth of cardio 3-4 times per week
    Otherwise I have a moderate level of actvity.
    Walk to work and on my feet at work.
    Any advice or imput would be greatly appreciated, and just let me know if i should provide any other details.
     
  2. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    Hello Zog.
    Well, you got things all right. If you wish to lose weight, you simply have to consume a little less calories than your maintenance level.
    Some have reported fat loss despite eating at maintenance or slightly above maintenance level.
    Weighing in at 250 pounds, your maintenance level calorie need is approximately 3000 calories.
    Now, even if you are "scrimping" on calories due to your desire to cut down, just don't leave out protein and essential fats in your diet.
    In fact, eat a lot more essential fats. Eating the right fats (Omega 3 and 6, and avoid trans-fats) will make you lose weight faster.
    Where to get essential fats? You can get supplements for these at health stores everywhere. But a simpler solution would be a change in diet if needed - for example, instead of eating fried porkchops or barbecues, eat tuna.
    Hope this helps. Good luck, Zog  :)
    -JV
     
  3. Make sure you know your maintenance cal level...

    jvroig says that with 250 pounds you maintenance would be about 3000 cal.

    I'm weighing 144 pounds and my maintenance is 3000 cal.

    So make sure you don't go to fast, or you'll lose muscle easily
     
  4. Since you are @ 20%+ BF, add moderate intensity cardio 3X week for 30 mins while eating at maintenance or even slightly above for a week or two, then gradually reduce cals (100-200 Kcal/day). When fat loss begins to stall increase cardio for longer durations.

    Hard dieting reduces BMR therefore it's better to create the energy deficit with exercise instead of severe dieting.
     
  5. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    Oh, yes of course. Diet and Exercise. Never one without the other.
    Regarding the 3000 cal maintenance, that was simply from multiplying his weight (250) with the factor 12. Given a moderate level of activity, body weight in pounds times 12 is generally the maintenance level. It's very easy to go beyond this calculation if you are a bodybuilder and have a very high level of activity. But since he just mentioned "moderate", i just gave the general standard you'll find in most "weight maintenace" material.
    Regards! :D
     
  6. Zog

    Zog New Member

    Thanks for all the help guys.
    I still have a question or two.
    1. How do i find a ball park number of calories per day to start with for cutting. I've heard of the Katch-McArdle formula. Is it any good?
    BMR = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)
    but I dont know what to add or multiply to the basal metabolic rate to get a calorie per day number. Or should I just do 3000-500cal?
    2. I guess I really don't understand how lean body mass differs from total mass in terms of BMR and thus determining Cal/Day
    If it helps I lead a fairly active life style. I'm a college student so I walk to and from work, and work in a lab so I'm on my feet a fair amount. Also I HST 3x/week and I will be adding cardio 3x/week
     
  7. If you are intent on using diet then a simple way of looking at it is to use

    @18 to 20 * BW to bulk

    @15 or 16 * BW to maintain

    @10 to 13 * BW to cut

    Some do better with different numbers so monitor your fat loss and adjust.
     
  8. jvroig

    jvroig Super Moderator

    Hey Zog. :)

    If you are interested in knowing more about your BMR and weight loss, you may also try this site: WeightLossForGood

    I hope that helps! :)
    -JV
     
  9. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    decrease the carb intake and up the fat particularly (mono and polyunsaturated fat)

    coach hale
    www.maxcondition.com
     
  10. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    and this will achieve what?
     
  11. addy

    addy New Member

    at 20% bf, i think you should you should check out the book The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook, by lyle mcdonald. you shouldn't worry too much about muscle loss until you're a lot leaner. the more fat you have to lose, the more muscle you're likely to keep IF you're weight training.
     
  12. addy

    addy New Member

    before anyone flames me, the above book is about crash dieting, and it's for people who want to lose fat as quickly as possible with an acceptable loss of muscle. however, if you're not willing to let go of any muscle at all, you should follow a more moderate approach, and do things more gradually. it will take a long longer to achieve your goals though.
     
  13. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    THIS WILL ALLOW YOU TO DROP WT AND BDFT FASTER. THAT SIMPLE. WITH CHRONICALLY ELEVATED LEVELS OF INSULIN AND GLUCOSE FAT BURNING CAPABILITES WILL BE MINIMAL AS THE BODY WILL DERIVE MOST OF ITS ENERGY FROM CARBOHYDRATE. ALSO THE DRYING OUT EFFECT IS SUBSTANTIALLY MORE PROMINENT IN REGARDS TO LOW TO MOD CARB INTAKE

    STUDY
    DIFFERENTIAL METABOLIC EFFECTS OF SAT VERSUS PLYUNSAT IN KETOGENIC DIETS
    Fuerleain, Rutenberg, Silver, Warren, Duncan, Brantly,
    Dept med, coll of medicine, univ fla,

    without going into detail the study indicated that a short-term Ply Kd diet improves ins sen, no adverse effect of ldl levels compared with a trad sat kd diet

    find at medline


    IN REGARDS TO POLY AND MONO OPPOSED TO SATURATED. HEALTH BENEFITS ARE QUESTIONABLE WITH HIGHER LEVELS OF SATURATED FATS, AS SOME STUDIES INDICATE INSULIN INSENSITIVITY, ELEVATED CHOL ETC.. ALTHOUGH THE INFO AND STUDIES ARE CONFLICTING IF YOU DO A SEARCH.

    POLY AND MONO ARE EASIER TO DIGEST AND CAN EASILY BE SUPPLEMENTED IN A QUICK EFFICIENT MANNER

    COMMENT ABOUT STUPIDITY NOT APPRECIATED

    thank you
    Coach hale
    www.maxcondition.cm
     
  14. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    It's good to see you here sharing with us Coach. You can certainly provide a lot of help to many of us, especially in the nutrition area.
     
  15. b0xm0ns73r

    b0xm0ns73r New Member

    Coach,
    Aaron wasn't calling you stupid, that is his SIG(signature). It is under all his posts. It is just a quote by Albert Einstein. Just like Old & Grey has that "Cowgirls save a horse, Ride a Cowboy".
    b0x
     
  16. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    i am glad to be here. Sorry Aaron my apologies

    btw my forum should be up and running next week
    i would love to have everyone check it out as well

    coach hale
    www.maxcondition.com
     
  17. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    Who said stupid?

    Proof
    Outside of caloric balance, makes little difference to healthy individuals, especially one involved in activity.
    yaay, makes no difference in absolute bodycomposition/.
    Why not go into the specifics of the study?

    While its been sometime since I have read the paper, whats the difference in body composition?

    oh thats right, no differnece between the two diets becuase it wasnt a specific part of the diet. IS changes, wow, they can also improve on a high carbohydrate diet... what absolute effect does IS have on the result of the diet?

    easier to digest? how do you figure this? Supplemented, everything can be easily supplemented.
     
  18. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    drying out makes a significant difference in physique appearance, particularly from a comp bodybuilding standpoint.
    In fact in many cases it is the determinant of winner or loser.


    Yes mounds of evidence that type of nutrient intake has a significant implication in regards to physique

    Mounds of evidence suggesting that elevated insulin and glucose even if in the caloric negative limit the use of ffas for fuel.

    The word supplement refers to fish oil caps, olive oil, flax oil.
    So you are saying that saturated fat is as easy to digest as the above mentioned.

    I have designed hundreds of eating plans and the principles i have utilized have been very successful. With that said there are obviously other ways to design nutritional regimens, but my methods have worked fine. They have been applied to ahtletes as well as general fitness enthusiasts.

    thank you
    Coach hale
    www.maxcondition.com
     
  19. coach hale

    coach hale New Member

    interesting studies

    comparison of energy restricted low carb and low fat diets on wt loss and body comp in overweight men and women
    medline.com

    low carb diet took in more calories yet dropped significantly more weight and also
    the study concluded that lc diet proved substantially more effective in regards to short-term body wt and fat loss. Understannding a great deal of this wt loss can be contributed to water losses. Also the type of foods was not specifically described go to medline.com to review the study

    In the xdl diet for bb the carb intake is low 10% with the carb spike three days before and a carb spike 20-30 minutes before going on stage.
    This eating plan has been very successful in terms of producing outstanding dryness, leanness, muscularity, separation, etc... Had the calorie intake been the same with substantially higner carb intake the appearance would be no where close to as enhanced. How do i know this because i have experimented with this method as well

    coach hale
    www.maxcondition.com
     
  20. BoSox

    BoSox New Member

    great except he weighs 250 and has 190 pounds of FFM. He isn't competing any time soon so drying out is definately not a priority. He needs to lose fat, which changing calorie sources won't change, as long as they provide iscaloric diets.
     

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