Does HST REALLY work?

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Maldini92, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. Maldini92

    Maldini92 New Member

    I have been doing HST for 3 cycles now and have gotten pretty good results. However, i still have some "trust" issues on whether it really works better than other more widely known ways of training.

    For example, especially on www.bodybuilding.com in their "post pictures" section. The majority of them have EXCELLENT progress and this is evident in their pics. Yet, when they type up their routines, it seems totally against HST principles. ie. 1 bodypart per day splits, some even go by "feel" etc

    Don't get me wrong, i have had decent progress (altho nowhere as good as a lot of the progress on bb.com) and i genuinely follow HST principles, and believe in it to an extent. But, this is starting to get to me. =<

    Could it just be a case of genetics? (I am a sort of typical asian -> ie. genes are pretty crap compared to the majority on bb.com) Or is this because of training?

    But what i would really appreciate from you guys is: For those who have used HST extensively for a period of time (perhaps 1-2+ years) , could you please post before pics and after pics? Just to help me put to rest some of these doubts.
     
  2. Louno

    Louno New Member

    well, ive been on and off hst since 2004, i tried a few different things, and maybe its just psychological but to me it seems HST is the best because : its easy and fun while giving some good results...

    Maybe other workout gives better results, maybe... but a lot of them are a pain in the ***... as for going by "feel" i tried it and its just not motivating, its easy to cheat after an extended period of time... Also, i can only workout 3 times per week max and hst is perfect for that.

    And no, i wont post before / after pictures because as i said i was on & off, and although im much bigger than what i used to be in 2004, i still find myself skinny, especially these days since i had to stop working out for 6 months, but im back at it again now [​IMG]
     
  3. ratty

    ratty New Member

    posted pics can be deceiving, like certain angles can make you look bigger for example..and do you know if these people are on roids or not??

    Prob is the case if what they say is true, like 20lbs in 10 weeks!!

    Just be sceptical thats all im saying, and you should only judge your progress based on YOUR own experience!

    Remember..everyone has different genetics and hormone levels, which make up prob around 50% of your response to training..

    All you can do is optimise your diet and training and track your progress!
     
  4. Try their workout method and HST while keeping all other variables constant (diet, sleep...) and evaluate for yourself. Different people respond differently to different things. If you are on da roids you'll probably do better with lower frequency and higher volume. Besides that there is always the personal preference / psychological component of liking a routine and sticking to it or not.
     
  5. _tim

    _tim Active Member

    I totally agree with electric... Different stimuli will affect different people, different ways. I can honestly say that I incorporate HST princliples in almost every routine I do - but I don't do the traditional 15-10-5 split. I think honestly it's up to the individual to determine what works both physiologically and psychologically. Bottom line, if you lift weights with good form on a regular basis, you progress your loads, and you eat enough healthy stuff to repair the damage you do in the gym, most anything will produce results. That said, there's an awful lot of wiggle room in there for each category. Diet is a HUGE component - and can be tremendously impactful to your bottom line results, just as your time in the gym.

    Good luck no matter what you do - but seriously, the fundamental principles of HST are sound. Don't abandon them thinking that there is something better out there. Most anything you find on BB.com will ascribe to at least one of the HST principles - take a look and I think you'll see that.
     
  6. EL_VIEJO

    EL_VIEJO New Member

    Maldini92,

    Re-read what Tim wrote - slowly and thoroughly digest what he's saying. Especially this part, <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Bottom line, if you lift weights with good form on a regular basis, you progress your loads, and you eat enough healthy stuff to repair the damage you do in the gym, most anything will produce results.  That said, there's an awful lot of wiggle room in there for each category.  Diet is a HUGE component - and can be tremendously impactful to your bottom line results, just as your time in the gym.</div> Tim seems to have a better grasp of this stuff than most people.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  7. Maldini92

    Maldini92 New Member

    Yeah i understand what Tim has said. It is just that sometimes its quite devastating to see the progress ive made in 1 year + 4 months (about 8kg lean gains i think) is matched by some people in 6 months, who say they are half assing it, skipping workouts etc.

    So what do you guys consider (for an average bloke with decent dedication) as good gains for 1 years worth of lifting? (Appreciate it even more if maybe a few pictures can also be shown)

    And yes i understand nearly all good workouts follow some HST principles -&gt; however, sometimes i get a bit doubtful because of how HST does not require you to push or work nearly as hard as other routines and even with SD periods in between. This is good in a way because i still see good results but can also act as a source of doubt when you see even better results from others.

    I hope i have made it clear where i'm coming from, i genuinely like HST =) but just sometimes need some reassurance that its the right way to go.

    As for other questions:

    Yes i'm quite skeptical on some of their progress pictures (some are so obviously using roids and other things which i'm against using for myself). But a lot of them still show great progress aside from those &quot;20 pounds in 10 weeks&quot; type thing.

    As for trying out the different routines to find out what works best -&gt; I guess it could settle any doubts i have once and for all, but before i even do that, it would be great just to see some personal progress stories etc Maybe i should go read more of those journals xD

    But, thanks a bunch for replying so nicely.
     
  8. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Maldini,

    Comparing yourself to others is only useful if you know everything about the person you are comparing yourself with, ie. it's not really useful at all! If your training is non-retarded (eg. HST, 5x5 or some other progressive loading routine) and your diet is on track for weight gain (if that's what you want) then you will make progress. How quickly you make progress is a lot down to your genetics (ie. if you half as many muscle fibres in your muscle bellies as the next guy then you will start off smaller and likely never be able to match the other guy's progress, even if he trains in a fairly haphazard manner) and where you are in your training career. Your natural hormone levels will play a part too.

    As the others have pointed out, there are a ton of variables to play around with. If you have been using HST for some time, it's quite possible that you might need to increase the amount of work per muscle group per session. Focus on all the main compound movements; set lifting goals; always try to increase your RM poundages over time; try to work on any weak links that might be holding your compound lifts back - eg. if your deads are plateauing, try to figure out whether you need to improve your quad, ham or back strength and adjust your training accordingly.

    Continuing to make progress year on year is a good goal to have but will obviously get more and more difficult as the years go by. At some stage in your lifting career you just won't be able to make any further progress and eventually even maintaining what you have will become more and more difficult. That sux but it's still going to be possible to be strong and look good for your age even without chemical assistance. If you are in your twenties or even early thirties you could easily have ten good years of progress to look forward to. That's a pretty nice place to be.  [​IMG]
     
  9. Maldini92

    Maldini92 New Member

    In fact i'm 17 at the moment so i'll have a fair bit of time to go. =)

    Righteo, i think all my concerns have been answered to. Thanks guys. [​IMG]
     
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Don't expect to become Arnold overnight. That's the problem most people have. You have to be patient. All these huge people didn't get huge in a year. It takes a lot longer than that. Bodybuilding is something that requires patience and dedication because it is something that you will be in for the long haul... seriously, because even if you do achieve what you want, you can't just stop lifting. You'll have to do at least something to maintain it at that point.

    Like everyone else said, asking whether something works or not isn't really a sensible question. Pretty much everything will &quot;work&quot; given that you do everything else that is required. Diet, as always, is going to end up being the major component that determines your success.
     
  11. ryolacap

    ryolacap New Member

    Honestly I get way better results from my spilt I created a couple of years ago, based on 30 total reps while increasing sets and weight.  I would not do the same bodypart for up to 10 days but got the results to the left of this post
     
  12. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah but where's the wheels bro??
     
  13. faz

    faz Active Member

    <div>
    (ryolacap @ Apr. 20 2009,1:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Honestly I get way better results from my spilt I created a couple of years ago, based on 30 total reps while increasing sets and weight.  I would not do the same bodypart for up to 10 days but got the results to the left of this post</div>
    so you have done HST [​IMG]
     
  14. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah but where's the wheels bro??</div> [​IMG]

    Yeah, we believe in wheels, if you show the bonnet you might as well show the boot [​IMG]

    The whole package is important, most people pay huge importance to one and forget the other. [​IMG]

    I know...I know...my avatar also only has the bonnet, but I have posted others that include the wheels in the appropriate section.
     
  15. ryder22

    ryder22 New Member

    Maldini92,
    Well the fact that these people are here in the forum and follows as well as track the HST program that they're doing wholeheartedly means that HST really works. Brother you have to put some faith into it in order for you to see real results in doing the program and also keep your heart and mind open to new information whether its about training, diet and other aspects of life as people uncovers it. Also, patience is the key for nothing great can be achieved overnight, you have to work towards your goal and stick to your plan as resiliently as possible. As far as HST is concerned, it really works especially if size is your primary goal with some strength on the side. The reason that I preferred doing Starting Strength first on my former posts is for the reason that I personally see that I lack the strength as well as mastery of the basic core weightlifting exercises (e.g. squat, bench, deadlift, press and deadlift) in doing the HST program properly. Just have faith in the program stick to your plans and work towards your goal that is the best advice that I can give in order to clear some of the doubts in your mind. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that HST is the best program with regards if size is your primary goal. It is well explained, precise up to the last detail, simple, specific and of course strategic. [​IMG]
     
  16. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    To Maldini

    Chap...at your age, you haven't even seen the beggining of what your body can accomplish.

    As most of the other guys put it, you have to work at it like a sculpture...chip away at it until you have the perfect product of your hard work!

    I'd say wityh some patience by the time you're 21 you could be one of the big guys, then if you apply your head as well you'll have knowledge to boot instead of just the &quot;carriage&quot; if you know what I mean. [​IMG]

    I'd say go over to the Simplify and Win thread and by the time you can:

    Deadlift at least twice your body weight
    Bench 1 1/2 x the same
    Squat 1 1/2 or even 2x BW
    Chin up with at least 30 kg hanging
    Dip with 30 or more Kg
    Military press your own weight

    You'd have gathered enough mass to talk about, HST are just principles to get you there faster and safer!

    Enjoy the ride, mate! [​IMG]
     
  17. omega99

    omega99 Member

    As I've stumbled across a variety of routines and concepts over the years, I've kind of thought of HST in this way...

    1. Growth = Progressive Load + Diet
    2. Faster Growth = (1) + Frequency
    3. Faster Growth Longer = (2) + SD
     
  18. ryder22

    ryder22 New Member

    You got it omega99, that's one sound and straight advice. Also Fausto had made a good point out here and that proves that the HST spirit is really winning. But as for myself I recommend Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength Basic Barbell Training Before any HST program for the reason that you can have more size gains in doing HST if you had a solid strength base and SS is geared towards your foundation in terms of strength and mastery of the core lifts. You can also check my thread at the Strength Specific Forum and the topic is namely Starting Strength before HST. [​IMG]
     
  19. Maldini92

    Maldini92 New Member

    Hey guys,

    Once again, thanks for the replies.

    Yes, i &quot;think&quot; i have mastered the core lifts well enough to do HST. I started off with about 8 months worth of starting strength, where i learnt from rippetoe's book before i moved onto 5x5 and then finally HST.

    As of now, my routine is basically:

    Workout A: Bench, Row, Deadlift, Barbell press, extras (arms, abs, calves)

    Workout B: Dips, Chin ups, Squats, Barbell press, extras

    I basically find out my 5RM before SD, then take off 5kg for bench, rows, etc or 10kg for squats, deadlifts, and 2.5kg for chin ups and dips for 12 workouts or so while i do a total of 15-20 reps per exercise no matter what weight i use. (Ie. higher rep sets for lighter weight or more sets for higher weight)

    ie. progressive loading, reps constant. (HST principles)

    So far, this has worked really well. =D

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    Deadlift at least twice your body weight
    Bench 1 1/2 x the same
    Squat 1 1/2 or even 2x BW
    Chin up with at least 30 kg hanging
    Dip with 30 or more Kg
    Military press your own weight</div>

    My 5RM maxes so far are:

    Deadlifts: 140+kg (havent tried more yet, but good form)
    Squats: 110kg (Not quite ATG YET)
    Bench: 72.5kg (Good form, touching chest etc)
    Rows: 67.5 kg (OK form)
    Dips: BW+25kg (Form is a bit suspect)
    Chin Ups: BW+12.5kg (Form is a bit suspect)
    Barbell Press: 45kg (OK form)

    BW = 77kg

    Once i surpass my 5RM, ie on the 13th workout or further on. I start doing cluster sets, and then if i struggle to do 15reps total, i start doing supersets. Before finally when the weight really is too heavy to lift more than a few reps, i start negatives.

    Sound good?

    As for diet, i admit i have not put nearly as much effort into it. However, i find that i still gain weight at a nice,constant rate. I think each HST cycle i've gone thru (each one being approx 8 weeks), i've managed to gain about 1-2kg. While my bodyfat stays relatively low (i think it's now at about 15%). So i THINK i'm doing okay with diet but certainly more can be done.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
    1. Growth = Progressive Load + Diet
    2. Faster Growth = (1) + Frequency
    3. Faster Growth Longer = (2) + SD</div>

    And that is also what i follow as a general rule. And i love how i can organise my way around it so that my SD periods are during exam times so i can study harder. I'm in year 12 atm (Australia) which is the last year school before going to Uni. Medicine hopefully ;)
    [​IMG]

    I think i will lurk on these forums more often now. Thanks and see you guys around. [​IMG]
     
  20. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Maldi... (he...he..he, kepp shortneing your name [​IMG])

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Deadlifts: 140+kg (havent tried more yet, but good form)
    Squats: 110kg (Not quite ATG YET)
    Bench: 72.5kg (Good form, touching chest etc)
    Rows: 67.5 kg (OK form)
    Dips: BW+25kg (Form is a bit suspect)
    Chin Ups: BW+12.5kg (Form is a bit suspect)
    Barbell Press: 45kg (OK form)</div>

    That is not bad going, bench is weak, work on it! As for teh others where form is suspect, drop the wieght a little and get the form right, it is soooooo important, not worth sacrificing it for a little more weight.

    Squats - its a fear thing, I suffer from the same syndrome, but once you get it its a winner feels good too! Drop some weight if you have to but try to get the ATG thing, then and only then its a full squat! [​IMG]

    Enjoy [​IMG]
     

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