Not gaining muscle?  This is why.

R

ryanc

New Member
I've just got through reading a bunch of posts on the board and I can safely say about 90% of them made me laugh.

HST is an excellent training program, and in browsing the training logs it seems most people have a grasp on it. I browsed the "post your results" section and really cracked up at a few of the before/after pictures. I saw a bunch of skinny guys complaining that they lost a half inch on their arms after a cycle, saying that HST sucks. No, actually, your diet sucks.

A lot of people think they are eating a lot when in reality, from a muscle-building perspective it's quite the contrary. Training is only a small factor in the bodybuilding equation. What most of you are neglecting is the diet aspect. If you are making strength gains in your logbook and you're somehow managing to lose weight, you ARE NOT EATING ENOUGH.

It's pretty simple to grow. You just have to be DEDICATED, and not deviate from training or your diet. Most people CANNOT be bothered to eat as often as you need to build muscle effectively. Try this for a cycle then get back to me:

- Eat every 2.5 to 3 hours. Pound down the protein (read: beef = muscle) and get some carbs in. About 4 hours before bedtime, stop eating carbs; protein only. This keeps bodyfat low. You'll end up eating about 6-7 times a day. If you're not hungry, too bad. Eat, and never miss a meal. This does not mean eat like a pig; this means eat quality protein sources such as beef, chicken, turkey along with a good complex carb such as brown rice, oatmeal or maybe even pasta.

- Train with increasing load. This is an HST principle, you all know about this.

- Grow.
 
Here we go......I can't wait for the responses to this thread. You must not have read the nutrition section?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything you have said but some things you are recommending you need to clarify why you are recommending them.  For instance eating every 2.5-3 hours....why do you recommend this?  I think I know the answer but I'm curious to see if I'm right.  Depending on your answer most here will either agree or disagree with you.
 
Mostly because I think people are too worried about getting "fat" to make any significant muscle gains. When people are rejoicing about gaining 5-10 lbs of muscle in a year, there's definitely a problem.

As for the eating every 2.5-3 hours deal, it's common knowledge that there are a multitude of benefits to eating smaller meals more often rather than eating a few larger meals. Do I really need to go into that? Steady stream of aminos = positive nitrogen balance all day long = fuel for your muscles. Take a look at the diet of any serious bodybuilder, he's eating at least that often.

I usually shoot for around 40-50g of protein per meal + carbs, used ever-increasing loads in my workout, kept up with off-day low intensity cardio, cut off carbs 4 hours before my bedtime and yeah, I've gained 25lbs since Nov 06. (185 to 210, 10% BF in 8 months).

But hey, do what you want.
 
Casein shakes immediately before bed are great too. Casein protein is very slowly digested; therefore it feeds your muscles slowly while you sleep. Throw in some glutamine and you have a great while-you-sleep-meal replacement/recovery shake!

Incidentally, I agree with the eating frequency of every 3 hours from both personal experience and from (almost) everything I've read.
 
Ryan, no matter how hard you try to teach or try to make people do something, the only person you have power over is yourself. From your original post, I get this holier-than-though attitude coming through. I don't mind but it's difficult to distinguish the information from the attitude, you see. Furthermore I tend to disbelieve the content of such posts when combined with that kind of attitude. Especially since that kind of attitude is otherwise frequently associated with arrogance and ignorance. But then again, do what you want on this matter.

I will disagree with you if only because I've read many anecdotes about trainees who eat crap yet still grow by their own accounts. I read something to the effect that muscle will grow regardless of diet. The person who wrote this is Bryan, this site owner and our favorite white coat on muscle growth. I tend to believe him when he writes something about hypertrophy or anything related to muscles.

In your original post, you wrote that training is only a small factor in the bodybuilding equation. I disagree. Training is the single most important factor to growing muscle. Muscle grows in response to training regardless of diet. Pubescent growth is a different story altogether.

I think that with any kind of training, the body becomes more efficient in its use of available resources. In other words, it ends up costing less for the same action. Therefore, I think that even with a maintenance diet, it's possible to grow because of this increase in efficiency.
 
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(Martin Levac @ Jun. 04 2007,13:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I read something to the effect that muscle will grow regardless of diet.</div>
Can you or anyone point me in the direction of this info from Bryan?

Thanks in advance.
 
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(The Fruitarian One @ Jun. 04 2007,16:13)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Martin Levac @ Jun. 04 2007,13:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I read something to the effect that muscle will grow regardless of diet.</div>
Can you or anyone point me in the direction of this info from Bryan?

Thanks in advance.</div>
I didn't find it, sorry. But it is in this forum deep inside one thread or another.

The context was food or no food required for muscle growth and Bryan wrote something like &quot;muscle responds just fine without an increase in food intake&quot; or &quot;positive protein synthesis can take place even without an increase in food intake&quot; or something along those lines.

I think he was pointing out that food was not the agent that triggered growth but instead it was the load that triggered growth and that was done independently of what or how much food one was eating. Demystifying the obvious, if you will.
 
&quot;If your training is optimized, it doesn't matter whether you are over eating or under eating. It has no effect on how you should train a muscle. You train a muscle to grow...period. Then, what you do with your diet depends on whether you are trying to gain weight, or lose weight.&quot;


          Bryan was stating that you train for growth regardless of bulking or cutting.He was actually refuting outdated misinformation about basing training around diet. IN CONTEXT his message was that an optimal training system is just that regardless of diet PERIOD.


More that bryan really did say:

&quot;At the simplest level, an excess of calories is required for the body to increase its fat-free/water-free mass. By excess we mean calories in excess of the body's daily caloric needs.&quot;
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I sincerely doubt Bryan Haycock said that, maybe another Bryan who`s into something completely different alltogether.(Edit:Bah, someone beat me to it, my typing skills suck) Do call me when you crack the secret of anabolism in the absence of the ingredients required for it, it`d be beyond great for space travel and stuff.

Why is this board turning into BBing.com?What happens if I get carbs 3.5 hours before bad...will I get very fat?And if I eat every 3.5 hours?The anabolic window is screwed or something?If I don`t eat clean, my progress will be forever screwed as well?What if I`m not really motivated to eat 200/300 calorie meals that ammount to...umm, pretty much zilch, of not taste foods every 2.5 hours-does that mean I fear greatness?Hmm, so many questions I do have...hopefully I`ll get answers for them so I can embark on a proper bber type of life.
 
I know you are trying to be helpful, but you come across as simply an arrogant troll. BTW, I am skinny guy who sucks at diet issues and I put on 25 lb.s of mostly muscle in one year of using HST principles. Lol is a guy who put on even more muscle in one year. I think he can deadlift around 450 too and has only been training for a year and half.
Not everyone makes gains using HST because many people simply don't apply the principles right, don't lift hard enough or don't eat right as you pointed out.
 
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(ryanc @ Jun. 04 2007,10:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As for the eating every 2.5-3 hours deal, it's common knowledge that...</div>
Okay, maybe you need to keep up with recent studies. The whole &quot;you gotta eat every half hour or you will get fat/shrink your muscles/whatever&quot; has been debunked for a very, very, very, very long time now.

Overall calories in the day is what is important (assuming enough protein), not how many meals that is broken up into. Eat however many or however few meals you need to hit your goals.
 
But anyway, I do agree that most bros aren't growing because they aren't eating nearly enough.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Why is this board turning into BBing.com?</div>
Sad, but true
 
Ryan, I agree that a lot of less-than-ideal results spring from a lack of calories in the diet.

However, there's plenty of good advice on this in the nutrition forum. Any newb can go there and find sound answers to their dietary questions. Eating enough to grow has been stressed many, many times. It's a no-brainer and yet it is easy to find examples of folks who still don't gain because they still aren't eating enough.

Also, have you read all the info on Lyle's site re meal timings? I think you will find that the typical BB idea of 6 or so meals a day is not actually a prerequisite for maximising muscle growth. The body is very good at dealing with whatever you throw at it. Of course, for some folks who find eating enough hard to do, adding in extra meals rather than increasing what they eat at each sitting might be a good idea.

My plan for weight gain is a little different now compared to what it was when I first started out. I tried to add about a lb a week and almost did so for nearly a year. I went from 175 to 215lbs. However, whilst I did get a helluva lot stronger too I added a fair bit of fat. I'm certainly not complaining, but it took a good four months earlier this year to burn a lot of it off and get back down to under 190lbs at a bf level slightly better than when I started out on HST.

So I gained around 20lbs of muscle the first year. From now on, I'm going to be a bit more careful with the cals and try to gain 1/2 pound a week at the most.

I think most newbs should still shoot for 1lb a week to begin with (assuming that they are starting at under 15% bf) and then reduce that to 1/2 a lb a week if they notice that fat levels are rising faster than expected. It's certainly doable to gain 20lbs of muscle the first year but you would probably need to gain a total of 30lbs or more to see that level of additional lean tissue.
 
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(ryanc @ Jun. 04 2007,10:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When people are rejoicing about gaining 5-10 lbs of muscle in a year, there's definitely a problem.</div>
Really? I think 5 to 10 pounds a year is fantastic for a natural lifter.
 
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(ryanc @ Jun. 04 2007,10:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As for the eating every 2.5-3 hours deal, it's common knowledge that there are a multitude of benefits to eating smaller meals more often rather than eating a few larger meals.  Do I really need to go into that?  Steady stream of aminos = positive nitrogen balance all day long = fuel for your muscles.  Take a look at the diet of any serious bodybuilder, he's eating at least that often.</div>
Nope you don't need to go into it at all....and I knew that is what you would say. There are pleanty of studies that prove otherwise. The only real reason the top level bodybuilders need to eat every 3 hours or so is because they would never get in the necessary calories if they ate less frequently simply because of the huge volume of food they must consume to grow.

Like I said....you obviously didn't read the nutrition section here before posting.
 
Ryan

Besides beef = protein and that goes for chicken and turkey or other animal sources.

We are forgetting our vegetarian comrades, what about protein sources for them?

Pulses + grains = muscle (watch out for overcomsumption of soy, specially those containing lots of phytoestrogens).

High quality carbs and lots of veggies + fruits.

To all, intake of certain raw foods, is specially important as the quality of minerals, vitamins and other micro ingredients is a darn side better and quicker absorbed than cooked counterparts!
wink.gif
 
I appreciate all of the intelligent replies. Coincidentally, I am somewhat glad that I came across as an &quot;arrogant troll&quot;, since this type of controversy simply gets more attention and topic views on an internet board.

The point was to help people that are having trouble growing. While it is true that training is paramount, I don't believe for a second that &quot;muscle will grow regardless of diet&quot;. If that were true, everyone that lifts weights would be walking around looking like a bodybuilder; and we all know that isn't the case. Eating (read: getting surplus calories) is just as important. The only reason I suggested to eat every 2-3 hours is just to get those excess calories your body requires to grow from all of the hard work you put in at the gym.

I hope at least one person that is struggling with muscular gains (like I was at one point) smartens up and stops wasting time in the gym and starts eating like a bodybuilder.
 
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(Fausto @ Jun. 05 2007,11:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We are forgetting our vegetarian comrades, what about protein sources for them?

Pulses + grains = muscle (watch out for overcomsumption of soy, specially those containing lots of phytoestrogens).</div>
Pulses and grains are okay-ish as a vegetarian source of protein, but cheese, eggs, whey and some &quot;fake-meats&quot; are better. Pulses and grains generally have a lot of carbohydrates in them, so in order to get enough protein you end up eating way too many carbs.

Also, this soy-phytoestrogen thing is way overrated. There's a big thread about it the the Vegetarian Bodybuilder board.
 
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