Question for Vicious or other HST experts

[cheen]

I am trying to setup a 6 day fullbody HST workout, currently from reading/poaching I've nailed down the following.

A) Front Squats B) Deadlifts x 2
A) Leg Curls B) Seated Leg Curls x 2
A) Dips B) Incline DB Press x 2
A) Chins B) Rows x 2
A) Military Press B) Upright Row
A) Rear DB Laterals B) Lying DB Laterals
A) Shrugs
A) Incline DB Curls B) Cable Curls
A) Skull Crushers B) Rope Pulldowns
A) Standing Calf Raise B) Seated Calf Raise x 2
A) Crunches

Total Sets:

Chest: 12
Back: 12
Quads: 12
Hams: 12
Shoulders: 12
Bicep: 6
Tricep: 6
Traps: 6
Calves: 6
Abs: 6

Doing 15-10-5-negs, incrementing every workout except for the common movements crunch/shrugs. Will do negs where possible, otherwise just stick at 5RM. Whats the deal with this cluster training i hear as a alternative to 5RM? Will one set of 15's be sufficient to maintain metabolic work during the 5's and negs? Is the amount of volume in this routine unrealistic? I have a few years under my belt training wise and seem to have a good tolerance for volume (have handled 6 day push/pull upper/lower splits before with no problems).

Thanks in advance

 

[Jester]

I don't consider myself an HST expert, but I can speak about 6x training.

The volume looks on target I think. That's the volume that I do, with the exception of calves. You need WAY more sets for those...2 sets doesn't do anything (at least not for me). This isn't to 'feel it' or anything, but I just don't get any growth from a single or double of calves each session. I've done 3 during the 15s and 10s, and 4-5 during the 5s. And they've responded.

Cluster training once you hit the 5s means aiming to achieve your normal rep total, rather than setxreps. For example, take chest. Lets say you're benching 220lbs tomorrow, 2x5reps. Only the the last rep or two might bring you to failure. Instead of this, you do a cluster-set routine for your chest. You might do 3 reps. Then do another 3, then 2, then 1, then the last rep to make it 10. The key to this style of training is stopping your cluster-set BEFORE reaching failure (or close to it). Apparently (& obviously) it takes a bit of practice and intuition.

 

[vicious]

I'd probably throw out the seated calf raise, rope pulldowns and cable curls. They're just not very useful (except the pulldowns for burn sets.)

The volume looks realistic; obviously, each person is different and you'll have to eat more food. A lot more.

Quote[/b] ]Will one set of 15's be sufficient to maintain metabolic work during the 5's and negs

Yes. You don't need to do burn sets for all of your compound movements, just enough to cover the bodyparts. Of course, you could do more if you think your CNS is holding up.

Cluster training is great; but I just wanted to emphasize that it shouldn't be used as a crutch if the fatigue is WAY too high. That means something's at fault with your routine plan and something needs to be downshifted a bit.

As for calves . . . best way to work them is to add a higher stretch component. MUCH higher. If that's not available, then more sets is the way to go. Key thing is to remember that, though higher volume helps, getting calves to burn will not really hasten your results.

Everything else looks fine. Good luck mate.

cheers,
Jules

 

[cheen]

Replace Cable Curls with Barbell curls perhaps? what about overhead tricep extensions instead of pull downs? How does one add a higher stretch component to calves? When doing the standing calf raise I go right down until I feel the stretch, pause and then go up. I guess 1 set of 15's with mid cycle weight for the first four exercises would cover everything metabolically during the 5's and negs. With the negs, would you use the same progression? Even if it meant your starting weight for the first negs workout was below your previous weeks 5RM? or do you just start ramping up the weight and see how far you can push yourself before you burn out?
Anything else I am missing?
What sort of rest period should you be taking when utilizing cluster training for lifts you can't do negatives for during those last couple of weeks?

With low weight exercises like rear delt laterals, how do you milk 6 increments out of them? is it ok to use just 3 increments etc and just repeat the weights twice?

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]Replace Cable Curls with Barbell curls perhaps?

I would probably choose Nautilus/Hammer machine curls. Excellent for creating a burn and increasing metabolic work. If not that, then curls on a preacher bench dumbbell style. This will enable you go negatives during post-5s.

Quote[/b] ]what about overhead tricep extensions instead of pull downs?

Sure, but it's best to choose either skullcrusher or overhead extensions.

Quote[/b] ]How does one add a higher stretch component to calves?

Ideally, you'd work with a donkey calf raise. If you don't have that, then keep your toes as far back as possible, lean forward with your shoulders, and curl your toes in.

Quote[/b] ]I guess 1 set of 15's with mid cycle weight for the first four exercises would cover everything metabolically during the 5's and negs.

Yup. If you feel you can do more, by all means.

Quote[/b] ]With the negs, would you use the same progression? Even if it meant your starting weight for the first negs workout was below your previous weeks 5RM?

I don't zig-zag, so I would just start at the 5RM and go at least 2-3 more increments for the next 2 weeks. No need to push the limit; you're just trying to facilitate some load progression safely through the post-5s.

Quote[/b] ]Anything else I am missing?

You can do strong-range partials for pulling movements during post-5s. This is a relatively easy to way to mantain load progression. Then you throw in a few reps at your 5RM in order to mantain full-ROM strength.
For calves, hold at the bottom for up to 30 seconds during 10s onward. Make sure your foot is below the platform and curl your toes in.

Eat. A. Lot.

Quote[/b] ]What sort of rest period should you be taking when utilizing cluster training for lifts you can't do negatives for during those last couple of weeks

For now, whatever it takes to get you to your rep quota. Once you're comfortable with it, then there's some guidelines about manipulating fatigue with rest periods to do a "Gironda-like" rep scheme.

Quote[/b] ]With low weight exercises like rear delt laterals, how do you milk 6 increments out of them? is it ok to use just 3 increments etc and just repeat the weights twice?

All isolation movements should be no sooner than the beginning of 10s. 6 increments will get you through 10s and 5s. Then you can switch to DB negatives. However, for rear delts, you may want to substitute the laterals for behind-the-back rows. The ROM is very limited but it still lets you use wider load progression. Whatever you'd do for the upright row, just do it behind your back until the weight is at your waist line.

cheers,
Jules