Timing of Overfeeding

[Calkid]

Okay,
Between my second and third beef enchilada yesterday at dinner, I had a thought. Of course, it being roughly 24 hours post-workout, I knew all of my growth factors were at maximum; I finished my enchiladas and ordered a fish taco as well.

But that thought was not put out of my mind. It went something like this: All growth factors peak at around 24 hours post-workout, and return to baseline at 36 hours. I would then assume that resource-consuming growth happens only during that same time period. As a bodybuilder I'm looking to maximize muscle and minimize fat. So I was thinking that I would overeat only during the subsequent 36 hours and tone down the eating on the day of the next workout.

For instance, I workout generally at about 6PM Monday (wed and fri). That would mean growth has fallen off by around 6AM on wednesday. So Wednesday day I wouldn't make a deliberate effort to stuff myself.

Does this seem like a plausible idea? Or am I hurting gains?

-Calkid

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]So Wednesday day I wouldn't make a deliberate effort to stuff myself.

This is a good idea. Calculate your "maintenance" calories and ratios, divide it up by the # of meals you typically eat a day, this would be the maintenace / pre-workout day meals you'd eat.

You can drop protein intake without adversely affecting residual protein synthesis. However keeping carb intake a little up helps to keep the body from using glycogen stores.

Ideally, you cut down on the protein and fat mostly, and the carbohydrates a little. If P:C ratio is important to you, then cut out mostly fat calories and reduce protein and carbohydrates proportionately.

cheers,
Jules

 

[PPP]

Calkid,

It's the same conclusion i came to after reading Lyle's interview.

Seeing the fact your body is busy restoring glycogen after your workout, after which it will grow, carbs is key.

Now about these ratio's. Would it be unwise to replace some of protein post workout by carbs and vice versa pre workout?

Or what about shifting most protein you eat during your next day (if you'd work out the evening before) to the end of that end, and shift your carb intake to the beginning of that day?

Pieter

 

[vicious]

From my experience, the "crucial" period is really that 3-4 hour window after the workout. Or, conversely, the hardest time to gain "fat" is during that same window. (Which is why I'm timing my thursday workout just before lunch gobble gobble

) I work out at night (~8pm) usually, so this is difficult to accomplish.

Keeb's been thinking about doing a Zone-style program, but frontloading carbs (and maybe protein) into that window to replenish glycogen stores during that window. Lyle is right about the stores: it's why it's difficult to gain muscle on low-carb diets regardless of caloric intake.

cheers,
Jules

 

[abemahl]

Vicious and others,
If you try this method, with the smaller meals and slightly decreased protein in the meals away from the workout, do you risk going into a negative nitrogen balance?
It seems to me that for a natural bodybuilder, free-form aminos would be helpful in this situation to force the body into a positive nitrogen balance.
Adam

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]If you try this method, with the smaller meals and slightly decreased protein in the meals away from the workout, do you risk going into a negative nitrogen balance?

In theory, no as long as your caloric intake is at least adequate (How much total food you eat has a much stronger bearing on nitrogen balance than protein, given a certain baseline, which is about 0.4-0.5g per LBM.)

The protein pulse theory suggests that if you eat a huge amount of protein after your workout, and eat only a little (15-20% of total protein intake) throughout the rest of day, your body will sustain overall higher protein rates than with equal feedings.

Do I buy this? Eh . . .

But most studies (okay, every study not done with steroid users ) show that going beyond 0.8g / LBM did not improve nitrogen balance unless you were training very heavy, as in twice-a-day, 1-2 hours per workout.

In an inactive lifestyle, 0.5g / LBM is adequate.

So the "handwaving" theory suggests that, outside the 3-4 post workout window (and certainly the time before the workout), you can mantain positive nitrogen balance with 0.5-0.7g/LBM.

So my variant with the protein pulse feeding idea is to allot 75% of (0.6g X LBM) protein to the meals outside of that window. Then take in a high amount of protein ( at least 1*BW - 0.6* LBM) in that window (or post-WO meal.)

This actually figures somewhat closely to Bryan's PPS article.

Another issue is what you'd do with the rest of your calories for each meal. In theory, you can mantain a very high carb-to-protein ratio (which could aid in protein synthesis) without jacking the insulin levels up unreasonably high (provoking hunger, mood swings, and ruined hormonal profile.) The rest can be eaten as fat.

cheers,
Jules