Wannagrow's training diary

W

wannagrow

New Member
I must say I am excited to open my training up to everyone's scrutiny since I need constructive criticism. I am a newbie to training (half a year experience) & this is the first time I'm trying HST. I am into the the 4th workout of the 10s which I will do on this coming wednesday which happens to be tomorrow. Yes- I will get to the point now!

stats

bw: 160 lbs (73 kgs)
bf %: 13
height 5"6 (170 cm)

maximums of the exercises I shall be using(yes I know I'm a weakling)

squat
15 RM: 45 kg
10 RM 55 kg
5RM 60 kg

leg curl
15 RM: 35 (lbs?)
10 RM 40
5 RM 45

bench press

15 RM: 50 kg
10RM: 60 kg
5 RM 65 kg

dips

15 RM: bw
10 RM bw+ 5kg
5RM bw + 10 kg

BB row

15 RM: 45 kg
10 RM: 52,5 kg
5 RM: 60 kg

overhead DB press:

15 RM 15 kg
10 RM 20 kg
5 RM 22.5 kg

pull ups

15 RM: bw- 50 lbs
10 RM bw - 30 lbs
5 RM bw

tri pushdown:

15 RM: 100
10 RM 120
5 RM 140

DB bi-curl

15 RM 10 kg
10 RM 15 kg
5 RM 17.5 kg

shrugs

15 RM: 27.5 KG
10 RM 32.5 KG
5 RM 37.5 KG

9 exercises in total

during the 15s I used 1 set for each exercise
during the 10s I am using 2 sets for compound, 1 for iso
5s Im gonna use 3 sets for compound 2 for isos

I do the exercises in the order I have listed the maxes above. I will post my first entry tomorrow. Wish me luck!
 
Your routine has a lot of essentials. I will not be surprised if you ditch some of the small exercises as the loads get tough. Good luck.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> Your routine has a lot of essentials. I will not be surprised if you ditch some of the small exercises as the loads get tough. Good luck. </div>

You mean like curls? Bryan never said anything about dropping isos so I can promise you I won't do that and besides my arms aren't responding very well so I need direct arm work.
 
I don't see deads in your routine. You have a golden opportunity to learn good form on these at an early stage in your lifting career. They will reward you with a load of new muscle if you work hard at them. You will also be amazed at how quickly you will improve at this lift.

I'd throw out leg curls and alternate squats and deads. Your squat numbers should go up pretty rapidly too as I note that they are currently lower than your numbers for bench. Same for shrugs.

With deads included, you'll have a really solid routine that should give you great results.

How's your diet?
 
I'm with Lol. Yes, Bryan's routine includes stuff like leg curls, but that won't be the most productive for you at this stage. As I said in the &quot;training upper back&quot; thread, not doing deadlifts would be a big mistake. I know you don't think they are anything great, but try them out for a couple cycles and really push yourself with them. Deadlifts should be the exercise that you can use the most weight with and they work more than just your quads, hams and glutes.
 
Not to mention that you'll soon be lifting a lot with them, cutting the need for many time-consuming exersizes.
Tot, you made the 230lbs? You GO, fat boy!
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Apr. 23 2008,8:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not to mention that you'll soon be lifting a lot with them, cutting the need for many time-consuming exersizes.</div>
This is exactly what I was saying.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Apr. 23 2008,8:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not to mention that you'll soon be lifting a lot with them, cutting the need for many time-consuming exersizes.
Tot, you made the 230lbs? You GO, fat boy!</div>
tot, 230lbs!?! congrats!

What bf % do you think you are at?





ok back on topic...throw in Deads, you won't regret it! I didn't put them in my cycles until late 07' and I wish I did years ago!!!
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Apr. 22 2008,10:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm with Lol. Yes, Bryan's routine includes stuff like leg curls, but that won't be the most productive for you at this stage. As I said in the &quot;training upper back&quot; thread, not doing deadlifts would be a big mistake. I know you don't think they are anything great, but try them out for a couple cycles and really push yourself with them. Deadlifts should be the exercise that you can use the most weight with and they work more than just your quads, hams and glutes.</div>
ok, in the other thread on training upper back, i conceded that I have to include snatch grip deadlifts but I don't know what to do because I'm already in the middle of cycle and I have no clue as to what my maximums are for that lift. So the obvious thing to do is to get this cycle over with and do them in the next cycle. Even if I do DLs I still need to train hamstrings and I'm not a big fan of the hip extension exercises for reasons that I gave in the other thread. So leg curls, for me, are a must. Although apparently they only train the short head of the biceps fermoris and so I will will need to alternate the lying and seated variations and I agree that fewer exercises, more sets are better, in principle.

TOday was the 5th workout of the 10s

squat 52.5 kgx 2
it was difficult but manageable

bench 60x 2 sets (last set clustered)
Unfortunately I was hoping that I got stronger and wouldn't hit failure on this but alas I had failed after the 10th rep and I must admit that I have failed on bench press the previous two times to test my strength (going above ten reps cos of my ego). So not good and hopefully this won't cause overtraining although I feel a little burned out. On friday should I train 60 kg bench again, cos I'm gonna presumably fail again and frequent failure= bad news???!!

leg curl 40 pounds x 1

no problem

dipsx 1 bw+ 5kg
it was ok

Barbell row
50 kg

good easy ten reps and I kept my body horizontal and did not jerk the weight up or use momentum
smile.gif


pull-ups 2x bw- assistance of 30 pounds

no problem
smile.gif


then i did the isos and a boring cool-down to finish the workout.

Comments:
All I can say is how could I be sooo stupid to have gone to failure on bench press these past few workouts.If you consistently go to failure on one exercise could that result in overtraining even tho its only one damn exercise?
 
Its strange, even though yesterday I went to failure on bench press and it looked like I was gonna give birth on the last rep I feel very little DOMS, if any, in my pecs just some mild stiffness. Should I train as planned on friday or take another day off and train on saturday? Feedback appreciated
 
wannagrow, training to failure on a regular basis will be harder on your CNS and can therefore affect your apparent strength in subsequent sessions. This is why HST is set up to have you hitting failure every few weeks rather than every session as you might with an HIT type workout. However, there is also the factor of conditioning; if you frequently train to failure you will get better at dealing with it. Thing is, why do this if you are training for size? For growth, frequent strain on the muscle tissue is more important than straining your CNS.

DOMS is not an accurate indicator that you did enough to grow (however, if you never experienced any DOMS that's not a good sign and you are either not using enough load or you are not doing enough total work or a combo of the two. Some folks get very little DOMS the whole cycle and yet a PS response is still regularly triggered. DOMS usually comes about if you perform an exercise relatively infrequently (like once a week) or if you do something very different with an exercise you are familiar with (like using a lighter load and doing 50 reps when you are used to performing 10 reps with a heavier load - in this case you are likely to trigger a stronger growth response from the heavier load even though you might not get as much DOMS).

After SD, most folks get a good dose of DOMs the first week, even with relatively light loads, but this dies down over the ensuing weeks.

So, how does this help you? Well, if your goals are to grow, you have to put strain on muscle tissue before strain on CNS. Hold off trying for new RMs until the end of the cycle or just try on one occasion each mesocycle instead of every session. If you really want to get a new PR on bench and recently trained to failure give yourself the extra day. Otherwise, train as normal on Friday and just stop a rep short of failure each set. If that means adding in another set to get your requisite total reps then do that. Being kind to your CNS and keeping fatigue under control at this stage will see you reaping the rewards at the end of the cycle.
 
This is just a four-your-information thing. HST is a great program, especially for hypertrophy and lack of boredom. There is no doubt about that. However, in your situation, I think you need some fundamental strength and the ability to the exercises correctly and a solid foundation as to why certain exercises, reps, etc. are chosen. You should seriously consider getting SS:BBT by Mark Rippetoe, doing that program, and start drinking a gallon of milk a day for the next 3 months. Why worry about complicated programming and waste time when you obviously have a lot of simple linear progression potential?

Then come back and do some proper HST cycles with some strength, mass, and maybe actually knowing what you are doing.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Apr. 24 2008,9:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wannagrow, training to failure on a regular basis will be harder on your CNS and can therefore affect your apparent strength in subsequent sessions. This is why HST is set up to have you hitting failure every few weeks rather than every session as you might with an HIT type workout. However, there is also the factor of conditioning; if you frequently train to failure you will get better at dealing with it. Thing is, why do this if you are training for size? For growth, frequent strain on the muscle tissue is more important than straining your CNS.

DOMS is not an accurate indicator that you did enough to grow (however, if you never experienced any DOMS that's not a good sign and you are either not using enough load or you are not doing enough total work or a combo of the two. Some folks get very little DOMS the whole cycle and yet a PS response is still regularly triggered. DOMS usually comes about if you perform an exercise relatively infrequently (like once a week) or if you do something very different with an exercise you are familiar with (like using a lighter load and doing 50 reps when you are used to performing 10 reps with a heavier load - in this case you are likely to trigger a stronger growth response from the heavier load even though you might not get as much DOMS).

After SD, most folks get a good dose of DOMs the first week, even with relatively light loads, but this dies down over the ensuing weeks.

So, how does this help you? Well, if your goals are to grow, you have to put strain on muscle tissue before strain on CNS. Hold off trying for new RMs until the end of the cycle or just try on one occasion each mesocycle instead of every session. If you really want to get a new PR on bench and recently trained to failure give yourself the extra day. Otherwise, train as normal on Friday and just stop a rep short of failure each set. If that means adding in another set to get your requisite total reps then do that. Being kind to your CNS and keeping fatigue under control at this stage will see you reaping the rewards at the end of the cycle.</div>
Thanks for the advice Lol. I think I'll train on saturday and this time stop 2 reps short of failure for each and every set just to give my CNS some extra recovery. This will hopefully be the last time I'll make such a STUPID mistake. Btw, good luck on ur op.

Whats a PS response btw?


<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
This is just a four-your-information thing. HST is a great program, especially for hypertrophy and lack of boredom. There is no doubt about that. However, in your situation, I think you need some fundamental strength and the ability to the exercises correctly and a solid foundation as to why certain exercises, reps, etc. are chosen. You should seriously consider getting SS:BBT by Mark Rippetoe, doing that program, and start drinking a gallon of milk a day for the next 3 months. Why worry about complicated programming and waste time when you obviously have a lot of simple linear progression potential?

Then come back and do some proper HST cycles with some strength, mass, and maybe actually knowing what you are doing. </div>

Niponbiki, I think i've seen u from somewhere before, Powerliftinguk perhaps.

I think starting Rippetoe's programme would be a good idea, I just don't like that the idea that every session I'll have to go to failure on big compound exercises. I want to know what everyone else thinks about it but thanks for the idea.
 
No sir, you have not seen me on UK sites.

Well, it was just for your information, but I must say one thing that should apply to all matters in life---you actually need to do some background research on things before deciding what something is or is not.
 
<div>
(nipponbiki @ Apr. 24 2008,12:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">No sir, you have not seen me on UK sites.

Well, it was just for your information, but I must say one thing that should apply to all matters in life---you actually need to do some background research on things before deciding what something is or is not.</div>

I've done plenty of background research and I knew about rippetoe's programme, starting sttrength, bill starr's 5x5 and ive read the FAQ several times for both; so I honestly have no clue as to what you mean by me not doing enough research. I agree that its a good programme but I have my doubts on training to failure multiple times a week.
 
My two cents....

Mark Rippetoe puts a tremendous amount of scientific evidence into his findings on the relationship between mechanic activity and strength, just as Bryan does between size and exercise physiology. I have to agree with nipponbiki - I think you need to do some more research before you dismiss anything that either one says in their documentation. You can learn a tremendous amount from both men that will compliment your training efforts.

The main question back to you is simply a clarification; do you want raw strength and whatever size you get, so be it, or do only seeking size? From your sub-title, I gather you want size, but still you need to answer that question given what you have learned thus far from the feedback you've gotten.

The answer to that will determine whether or not you follow the Rippetoe programs or HST. REGARDLESS of the answer, you can learn perfect mechanics from Rippetoe, and those mechanics lend themselves to both size and strength - and will give you the tools to avoid injury.

Now then - if you want strength and don't care about size, buy Rippetoe's books and get to town. If not, read the HST FAQ's 6 or 7 times, read logs of those who have been here a while, read the HST forum in detail, and get in the gym.

There are lots of ways to go about training - there's really no one right answer. Keep that in mind as you proceed.
 
<div>
(_tim @ Apr. 24 2008,1:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My two cents....

Mark Rippetoe puts a tremendous amount of scientific evidence into his findings on the relationship between mechanic activity and strength, just as Bryan does between size and exercise physiology. I have to agree with nipponbiki - I think you need to do some more research before you dismiss anything that either one says in their documentation. You can learn a tremendous amount from both men that will compliment your training efforts.

The main question back to you is simply a clarification; do you want raw strength and whatever size you get, so be it, or do only seeking size? From your sub-title, I gather you want size, but still you need to answer that question given what you have learned thus far from the feedback you've gotten.

The answer to that will determine whether or not you follow the Rippetoe programs or HST. REGARDLESS of the answer, you can learn perfect mechanics from Rippetoe, and those mechanics lend themselves to both size and strength - and will give you the tools to avoid injury.

Now then - if you want strength and don't care about size, buy Rippetoe's books and get to town. If not, read the HST FAQ's 6 or 7 times, read logs of those who have been here a while, read the HST forum in detail, and get in the gym.

There are lots of ways to go about training - there's really no one right answer. Keep that in mind as you proceed.</div>
tim, just to clarify I'm doing HST right now so my goal is hypertrophy but I also want to gain strength becuase if I'm not getting stronger then its a sign that I'm definitely not getting bigger. But hypertrophy is the priority.

I didn't dismiss rippetoe's programme and I think its fantastic from what I've read in its FAQ. Its just that since my goal is to gain size atm I can't be stressing my CNS too much like on rippetoe's programme. So its not suitable for me atm and it is true to say that rippetoe's ideas, although they do work and follow sound principles, do not place as much emphasis on science as Bryan's ideas. That's all I said. Nothing judgemental. I might use it in the future asI don't have to stick to HST for the rest of my life, I just want to do at least 2 cycles of it &amp; then give rippetoe's a go.
 
wannagrow, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion. Let me be very clear about that - this isn't BB.com where you'll be assailed simply for your opinion. If that's how I came across, I do apologize.

HST is a wonderful program from a brilliant mind. You simply cannot go wrong to employ the HST principles in your training, or simply to do &quot;vanilla&quot; HST as put forth in the FAQ's.

I'd encourage you, however, to look at the mechanics of the core lifts from Rippetoe's perspective. I say this because you will find many lifters here who have re-learned the core lifts simply after reading about the lifts in Rippetoe's books. I think by now you know that squats and deadlifts get a lot of attention here. The thing is, it's quite easy to do these exercises wrong, or not to optimum efficiency. Rippetoe will teach you early on proper technique, and that is absolutely crucial to your success.

Best of luck.
 
<div>
(_tim @ Apr. 24 2008,2:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wannagrow, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion.  Let me be very clear about that - this isn't BB.com where you'll be assailed simply for your opinion.  If that's how I came across, I do apologize.

HST is a wonderful program from a brilliant mind.  You simply cannot go wrong to employ the HST principles in your training, or simply to do &quot;vanilla&quot; HST as put forth in the FAQ's.

I'd encourage you, however, to look at the mechanics of the core lifts from Rippetoe's perspective.  I say this because you will find many lifters here who have re-learned the core lifts simply after reading about the lifts in Rippetoe's books.  I think by now you know that squats and deadlifts get a lot of attention here.  The thing is, it's quite easy to do these exercises wrong, or not to optimum efficiency.  Rippetoe will teach you early on proper technique, and that is absolutely crucial to your success.

Best of luck.</div>
its ok. yeah, I like how almost everyone is civil in this forum.

I just bought the book Starting strength, I may not follow the programme but I'm amazed by how much detail he goes into the major lifts &amp; explaining the mechanics of each lift- on amazon it got 5 stars by 90% of the ppl and the rest gave it 4- so I take back what I said although still it is true to say that Bryan has more knowledge of hypertrophy science and how to induce it whereas rippetoe specialises in the detailed execution of exercises and strength training.

I'm gonna introduce dealift in my routine but alternate it with squat in A/B/A workout fashion and as I'm about to start the fives on monday I'll axe some of the isos, I think, unless someone thinks this is a very bad idea &amp; I will be happy to discuss. Simplify and win, eh?
 
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