ZMA

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imported_da1andonlychacha

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Questions. Does ZMA really have a boosting effect on testosterone levels and carryover into real strength/mass gains? Is it usable as a stand-alone product? Finally, is it useful when coming off a prohormone cycle to bring your natural T up to speed and keep your gains?
 
I can't answer all of your ?s but I just started taking it again. It does seem to help with rest and recovery but as far as boosting test, I'm not sure.

Take it easy.
 
ZMA will have abosolutely no significant effect on your testosterone levels, whether coming off of a ph cycle or not. If you feel that you are getting some recovery benefits, it is simply because you were deficient in zinc or magnesium levels.

You would be much better off just using a daily multivitamin.
 
are there any products that you would recommend to boost natural test levels coming off a prohormone stack?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (da1andonlychacha @ Aug. 25 2004,12:44)]are there any products that you would recommend to boost natural test levels coming off a prohormone stack?
If you are wanting to stay OTC, look for Metacort or 6-oxo. Your better bet, however, would be to get some Nolvadex. It is super cheap and much more effective.
 
isn't Nolvadex an estrogen blocker? Estrogen really isnt a concern w/ ph use. What about HCG? That sounds a bit too hefty, though. There's also Tribulus. What do you think?
 
Baby a,
I hate to disagree but there have been plenty of studies showing ZMA does in fact increase T levels up to 30%. Also, most athletes are deficient in zinc and magnesium levels.

ZMA is cheap... give it a shot. Just stay away from the overpriced versions.

I've heard good and bad about 6-oxo. Post-Cycle from the Protein Factory is fairly cheap, also. The ingredients in Post-Cycle have much more research behind them than 6-oxo but I wouldn't know which is more effective.

Take it easy,
Staxx
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Staxx @ Aug. 25 2004,5:13)]Baby a,
I hate to disagree but there have been plenty of studies showing ZMA does in fact increase T levels up to 30%. Also, most athletes are deficient in zinc and magnesium levels.
Hate to disagree with you, Staxx, but show me one. Sounds like you need to do a bit more research. Any study showing that ZMA has any significant effect on testosterone levels was funded by the company trying to sell the stuff. It's crap.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (da1andonlychacha @ Aug. 25 2004,12:12)]isn't Nolvadex an estrogen blocker? Estrogen really isnt a concern w/ ph use. What about HCG? That sounds a bit too hefty, though. There's also Tribulus. What do you think?
Not trying to bust your balls, man, but you should probably study up a little more on ph use before you use them. Estrogen certainly IS a concern when using ph (depending on which you use.) I would just do a little more research before doing any kind of cycle so that you don't waste your money. :)
 
well im not planning on taking them till spring. do you know where i could get some quality info?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (da1andonlychacha @ Aug. 26 2004,12:48)]well im not planning on taking them till spring. do you know where i could get some quality info?
Well, for one, this site has an enitre thread designated to ph and AAS use in the FAQ section. Hopefully you have seen that by now.
 
yes, i've seen it. some of the info doesnt match other info i've seen. For example, Nor-diol is supposedly more free from androgenic side effects b/c it doesnt convert back to DHT. But it's anabolic effects are supposed to be near 4-diol. It seems like there should be more to it than the androgenic side effects directly correlate w/ the anabolic benefits. After all, different phs stimulate different hormones. anyway, whether or not any of that is true.... im looking one cycle of ph focusing on getting and retaining lean mass more so than blowing up huge and then deflating. im looking for the best way to do that.
 
I would recommend a 1test/4ad cycle. S1+ seems to be a really quality product, although I cannot speak from personal experience.
 
i have to admit 1test worries me some. it's an actual steroid, and i'm sure all the estro/andro side effects are much much higher than the phs. im sure it works great, i just dont know if pumping raw 1test into my body is a great idea. have you used it?
 
Any ph is a steroid. 1test has a very good results/side effects ratio and I feel either it or M1T should be the basis of any ph cycle (although 1test should be the definite first choice for anyone with limited ph experience.)
 
ok, so let's say i went w/ 1-test/4ad or 1-test/Nor-diol for 6 weeks. how would you suggest i come off it to best retain mass?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (da1andonlychacha @ Aug. 26 2004,10:01)]ok, so let's say i went w/ 1-test/4ad or 1-test/Nor-diol for 6 weeks. how would you suggest i come off it to best retain mass?
Assuming you are using an HST program, you should always end a cycle just before entering into the heaviest portion of your cycle. I would probably only do a 4 week cycle maximum, extending the second week of 10's into 2 weeks and the first week of 5's into 2 weeks. This leaves some room for progression into heavier 5's and then your choice for the last 2 weeks of the cycle. Stick with at least using your 5 rep max for these last 2 weeks. As soon as the cycle was completed, I would immediately start taking Nolva at a high dosage for 2-3 wks, and then a tapering dosage for at least another 2-3 weeks.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The ingredients in Post-Cycle have much more research behind them than 6-oxo

This I completely disagree with - I would say that the exact opposite is true.

The 'claimed' aromatase inhibitors in Post-Cycle are:

Calcium D-Glucarate: 25 mgs
5,7-dihydroxyflavone: 500 mgs
Piperine:5mgs

There are no peer reviewed studies that show the efficacy of any of these (in humans) as aromatase inhibitors, i.e. lowering estrogen. The only studies that I am aware of with Calcium D-Glucarate were in animals, and using incredibly high dosages.

The only place I can find that claims otherwise is the sales literature for Post-Cycle! Amongst the ingredients are some mildly effective liver protectants (which aren't really necessary
if you are using something that isn't liver toxic, i.e. something that isn't methylated), and a couple of things that could aid erections - so you may feel like your testosterone levels are being restored.

6-OXO (which is 3,6,17-androstenetrione), on the other hand has had a peer reviewed study that showed that it was effective in lowering estrogen, and consequently raising testosterone levels. If I recall correctly, testosterone levels were raised by up to 100% in some of the test subjects.


Rob
 
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