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View Full Version : Whch creatine is worth the money



Lars
04-03-2002, 12:15 AM
Since some people always wants to make money from my student funds I though I'd check with you guys...

Does any of you know where I can find some creatine without a lot of creatinine ? I thought I might as well buy something that'll work when I buy something *http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif

If I'm not mistaken, the German labs make good stuff while the Chinese mostly add a couple of grams of creatine into their creatinine *dookie*...

Any help's appreciated. 6 weeks until I drop my weight loss for a cycle to gain some muscle!

Bryan Haycock
04-03-2002, 01:15 AM
I can't mention brands, but I can tell you that creatine from certain German companies is of high quality. However, the Chinese have actually cleaned up their act and have now began to produce hhigh quality creatine as well. This comes after pressure from large supplement companies for thier creatine to meet other companies standards of purity.

There is also a US company that sells equally high quality creatine as the Germans. Remember, there is no secret to producing pure creatine. If one company decides to ensure that their raw creatine is pure, it will be just as good as any other company that is producing pure creatine. So, pure is pure, regardles of where it comes from.

Keep in mind that high quality (pure) creatine costs more than cheap impure creatine. So there is alwyas a temptation for companies who don't really know or care "who they are as a company" to just go for the cheap stuff without regard for quality.

HSN will be releasing a fine grain creatine in a few weeks. If you can wait that long I will personally guarantee its purity.

Lars
04-03-2002, 01:32 AM
Thanks for the answer!

I may be interested in it later on, but I have to check up on freight costs and taxation. I've only lived in Australia for 8 months and don't know what things cost to get...

In the mean time, however, I'm not looking to find out who produces crap creatine but who produces good. I don't think that'll be too bad advice to give, do you think ?

Thanks again

Garratt
04-03-2002, 02:26 AM
Awesome!.. thats really cool about the CREATINE sold by you..
And I quote:

There's only two things to look for when shopping for creatine: purity and a low price. Creatine is creatine, and despite the bells, buzzers, and whistles added by various ingenious supplement companies, all will have virtually the same effect on your body.

It is true that insulin seems to increase the rate of absorption, but all we're talking about here is speeding up the loading phase. If you take any of the glucose/creatine mixtures available, you'll load the muscles with creatine more quickly than you would otherwise, but that just means you'll reach your muscle cell threshold that much quicker. The same is true of liquid creatine. It's simply absorbed by the body much more efficiently.

If you're concerned about how fast you load, try dissolving your powdered creatine in a warm beverage, like tea. That's how the initial creatine studies were conducted and what they knew then still applies: creatine just doesn't dissolve very well unless you mix it in something warm.

And, if you really want to elicit an insulin response to facilitate muscle cell absorption, you might as well make a creatine sandwich! White bread has a glycemic index of 100, the same as the glucose added to various high-falutin' brands. I'm not actually suggesting that you do that, but the point remains: you can elicit an insulin response (which in turn will help the body absorb more creatine) in many different ways; powdered glucose or sucrose doesn't have to be involved.
- T-mag

nematic
04-03-2002, 12:03 PM
On a related issue I would like to submit my recipe for creatine "tea." It isn't really tea. Think of it as just a hot beverage. As you all probably know creatine isn't chemically stable in acidic environments like real tea (tannic acid) or the stomach (HCl) and is converted to creatinine.

1/2 tea baking soda
75 grams creatine
75 grams sugar (glucose best, but table sugar will do).

Put everything in a coffee grinder and turn into what looks like flour (home made "micronized")

Mix 2 teaspoons in a cup of warm water.
Makes 37, 2 gram servings. (1 Serving = 1 teaspoons)

The baking soda raises the pH to about 8.2 at which creatine is stable. A Japanese patent found creatine stable is solution at pH=8.3 for months. More baking soda won't raise the pH and makes the "tea" taste worse. I prefer to take it on an empty stomach so that it passes rapidly into the digestive tract before it can break down. Creatine is soluble is water (see the CRC Handbook), just not real soluble, so use warm water.

Garratt
04-03-2002, 03:55 PM
Thanks nematic, Gota try that, I'm gunna be buying creatine again soon, it never worked for me before, because I took it by itself, so hopefully this tea will help! http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Lars
04-03-2002, 08:55 PM
Excellent! I have to try this when I go onto my gaining cycle!

Have you seen much difference between grinding and not grinding ? I wouldn't think you'd change the size enough to actually change its properties regarding its abilities penetrate cells ?

Does anyone have a scientific take on the grinder thing ? If it's worth it I may have to get one of those... http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

nematic
04-03-2002, 10:27 PM
The purpose of grinding is just to make the creatine dissolve faster in warm water. No, it doesn't help molecular adsorption, but its got to be dissolved before it can be adsorbed. I use a Braun coffee grinder, nothing fancy or scientific in any way.

Using creatine monohydrate used to upset my stomach, so I took it with food, which is exactly the wrong thing to do as the creatine gets broken down by the longer time in the acidic stomach. The creatine also didn't seem to do any good in my workouts.

Since taking it in a dissolved form it hasn't bothered even an empty stomach. Of course I've cycled the use of creatine since the creatine transport mechanism into the cell probably down regulates with prolonged use (http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/research-update-013.htm). I now also notice an effect from taking the creatine which I did not before.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lars
04-03-2002, 11:38 PM
Thanks! Guess who'll find yet another excuse to not start working on his assignments due right after easter...or the mid term exam http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif

Guess I'll go get myself a grinder!

Firminator
04-04-2002, 11:50 AM
Bryan - I just started my first HST cycle and didn't want to start a creatine cycle at the same time. I wanted any results I got to be from HST and nothing else. I plan to use creatine during my next cycle so I can wait until your creatine becomes available.

Question - As a long time creatine user, how can you tell where your creatine comes from? you state that creatine from different sources are more pure than others - how can you tell where companies get their creatine from? Just something I never thought much about- Thanks

Aaron_F
04-05-2002, 04:26 AM
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nematic @ April 03 2002,12http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On a related issue I would like to submit my recipe for creatine &quot;tea.&quot; *It isn&#39;t really tea. *Think of it as just a hot beverage. *As you all probably know creatine isn&#39;t chemically stable in acidic environments like real tea (tannic acid) or the stomach (HCl) and is converted to creatinine.

1/2 tea baking soda
75 grams creatine
75 grams sugar (glucose best, but table sugar will do).

Put everything in a coffee grinder and turn into what looks like flour (home made &quot;micronized&quot;)

Mix 2 teaspoons in a cup of warm water.
Makes 37, 2 gram servings. *(1 Serving = 1 teaspoons)

The baking soda raises the pH to about 8.2 at which creatine is stable. *A Japanese patent found creatine stable is solution at pH=8.3 for months. *More baking soda won&#39;t raise the pH and makes the &quot;tea&quot; taste worse. *I prefer to take it on an empty stomach so that it passes rapidly into the digestive tract before it can break down. *Creatine is soluble is water (see the CRC Handbook), just not real soluble, so use warm water.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Creatine degradation to creatinine is a spontaneous non-enzymatic reaction. *
Creatine is favours high pH and low tempertures, whilst creatinine favours higher temps and lower pH.

If you *are going to worry about the &quot;small&quot; conversion of creatine to creatinine in an acidic soilution for 1-2hours max, then you should also worry about the temp of the solution, thereby making the &#39;tea&#39; in cold water would be better.

To quote a review on the subject (1) &quot;Starting with pure Creatine solution, 1.0-1.3% of the creatine per day is converted to creatinine at pH 7.0-7.2 and 38degrees C.&quot;
The reaction goes both ways, so in the stomach the reaction will favour production of creatinine, but once the environmetn changes to more alkaline (as in the small intenstine) the reaction should favour creatine.

(1) Wyss and Kaddurah-Daouk. *Creatine and Creatine metabolism. *Physiol Rev 2000;80:1107-1213

This paper just goes on and on, with 1163 references &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Lars
04-05-2002, 04:29 AM
Excellent info&#33; Thanks http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/worship.gif

nematic
04-05-2002, 07:30 AM
Thanks. *The full text of the Physiol Rev. article is available at:

http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi....0893433 (http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=full&pmid=10893433)

I&#39;m trying to &#39;digest&#39; it now. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

AbeFroman
04-05-2002, 09:12 PM
Ergogen labs. Best I&#39;ve used. It&#39;s a hard pill. Super &#036;&#036;&#036;.

RainierWolfcastle
04-06-2002, 06:21 PM
I like Aussie Bodies creatine. If you shop around you can get it for &#036;70 per kg.

I used to shop at a suppliment store in Stafford. You pay a &#036;2 joining fee and get 25% ish off RRP. I think the same guy has a store in Mt Gravatt and one in the city.

Lars
04-06-2002, 09:34 PM
You&#39;re in Brizzie, right Rainier ? Go check out Ada Street. They&#39;re the best as far as I&#39;m conserned. They&#39;re also happy to recommend the cheaper brand as long as it&#39;s the better one.

RainierWolfcastle
04-06-2002, 09:49 PM
Where is ada street ?

Lars
04-06-2002, 10:16 PM
http://www.adastreet.com.au/ (the shop&#39;s in Taringa)

Muscle Monthly
06-12-2002, 05:52 PM
SupertechUSA.com is offering Buy Two, Get One Free (33% off) on their German (Creapure) micronized creatine.

imported_edziu
06-15-2002, 12:40 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aaron_F @ April 05 2002,02:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To quote a review on the subject (1) &quot;Starting with pure Creatine solution, 1.0-1.3% of the creatine per day is converted to creatinine at pH 7.0-7.2 and 38degrees C.&quot;
The reaction goes both ways, so in the stomach the reaction will favour production of creatinine, but once the environmetn changes to more alkaline (as in the small intenstine) the reaction should favour creatine.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Interesting. So my &quot;lazy man&#39;s&quot; way of taking creatine may actually be good. . . I have Phosphagen creatine (from EAS) which is a very fine powder.

I put my dose in a glass, pour a very small amount of water on it (1/8 cup), swoosh and swallow. I add a little rinse water to the cup to get the last grains, swoosh and swallow. Then I fill the glass and drink it all down.

My theory was that the undissolved creatine would more readily dissolve in my warm stomach than in the room-temperature water I drink, and that most of it would be dissolving or dissolved as it left my stomach for the duodenum and the rest of the intestines. . .

Now I learn that the PH&#39;s may actually play in my favor if the creatine is not fully dissolved when it hits my stomach.

And it&#39;s so much more convenient this way&#33;