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Joe.Muscle
03-10-2005, 07:41 PM
Guys I need some help. Even though I have been lifting for 9 yrs now I am getting extremly frusterated. It seems that at my age 26 I am more muscular than ever..but here is my problem at 11.5% BF I am caring every bit of it in my stomach. With clothes on I look really lean...my face is lean chest defined arms are cut...but right blow my belly button I am carrying nothing but a pooch of fat??? I have been restricting my calories and eating clean 5 1/2 days a week...trying to get ready for summer. Please help with suggestions here is my workout

Chest incline dumbell 4 sets
Back rows 2 sets
Lat pull 1 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
Shrugs 1 set
Tricep 2 set
bicep 2 set
Squats 3 sets
Abs 3 sets

Please help!

Thanks
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

vicious
03-10-2005, 08:52 PM
What is your cardio like? Tried HIIT?

cheers,
Jules

Joe.Muscle
03-10-2005, 09:26 PM
Have not done much cardio...b/c I use to be able to control everything by diet....ie. eating right!

How much HIT should I add?

stan
03-11-2005, 10:55 AM
I do HIIT in the mornings of the days when I exercise in the afternoon.

Started with 4 minutes of HIIT, I'm now at 10 mins, and estimate to go to 15 mins with warmup and cooldown added on top..

S.

vicious
03-11-2005, 02:26 PM
Quote[/b] ]Have not done much cardio...b/c I use to be able to control everything by diet....ie. eating right!

Yeah, that's basically the problem. Dieting down without any cardio means that BF loss will be indiscriminate between visceral and subcateneous fat. If you want to speed up fat loss around the tummy, cardio needs to be added. Both HIIT and steady-state will do fine for your needs.

cheers,
Jules

Lance
03-11-2005, 07:03 PM
Quote[/b] (vicious @ Mar. 11 2005,1:26)]Yeah, that's basically the problem. *Dieting down without any cardio means that BF loss will be indiscriminate between visceral and subcateneous fat. *If you want to speed up fat loss around the tummy, cardio needs to be added. *Both HIIT and steady-state will do fine for your needs.
cheers,
Jules
What's the difference between visceral and subcateneous fat?

I didn't know cardio changes what fat stores are burned when cutting. That's amazing. =)

So what should i know about cutting and cardio? I've mostly just dieted, never did much cardio out of preference, i find it very boring.

vicious
03-11-2005, 07:22 PM
I think popular consensus is, to cut effectively, you want to eat a maintenance or moderate deficit diet. Then, let the cardio take care of the rest, as it will burn what you want.

Subcatenous fat is around the abdominal wall and under the skin. Primarily what gives you the gut. Visceral fat is padding around the organs. Generally, visceral fat has more influence on your heart health than subcateneous.

Between the caloric reduction control group and the exercise gtroup, exercise increases the burning of subcateneous fat by something like 4 times over the control group.

So, in Joe's case, he'd probably do fine with 30-45 minutes of normal cardio or 15-20 minutes of HIIT 4-5x-a-week. In about a month, he should see some abs clear through.

cheers,
Jules

imported_dkm1987
03-12-2005, 12:01 PM
Just to throw my hat in the ring http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

The 4 fold increase was in total fat loss, with no distinction between visceral or subq, Ross and Janssen.

They also showed that with any subq loss there will be some VAT loss as well, something like 3 to 4% per cm lost in the waistline, when speaking of the overweight.

Lastly the differences between long term steady state cardio and HIIT have showed nothing conclusive that HIIT burns more subq fat than steady. The whole hub bub about HIIT revolves around what's coined EPOC (post exercise oxygen recovery) and although HIIT does impact replenishment of oxygen stores, adenosine triphosphate/creatine phosphate recycling, lactate removal, and increased body temperature, circulation and ventilation, not much is known about the mechanisms or overall metabolic costs. A sustained increased circulation, ventilation and body temperature may contribute, but most research shows the cost of this is low. Whereas an increased rate of triglyceride/fatty acid cycling and a shift from carbohydrate to fat as substrate source are a known result of prolonged aerobic exercise. When looking at what it takes to continue frequent loading I personally feel I would rather spare my glycogen and use my ATP and CP for my lifting not humping it on a bike. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif

vicious
03-12-2005, 04:30 PM
Yeah, HIIT isn't a good idea with bikes. It's difficult to get your heart rate up to a significant level without hitching up neural drive. Also, if a person works out at night primarily, then steady state cardio wins out.

I prefer HIIT only because I don't have a lot of time to do a proper cardio session, it improves my performance levels (metabolic fatigue isn't an issue for me except on deadlifts), and it's a nice way to get my post-WO carb intake up without worrying about fat gain and such. But all that hinges upon me having access to the Versaclimber, which is the only device at my gym which faciliate true HIIT. Bikes don't do it; most of those psuedo-stairstepper/bar contraptions won't do it. Sprinting and swimming would do it, but I don't have access to a track or a pool.

cheers,
Jules

imported_dkm1987
03-12-2005, 04:40 PM
Quote[/b] (vicious @ Mar. 12 2005,3:30)]But all that hinges upon me having access to the Versaclimber
Not trying to throw off the thread but how do you like the versaclimber ?

vicious
03-12-2005, 05:04 PM
I love/hate it. I dread it almost as much as I dread squats. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The average caloric burn rate on a Versaclimber is supposed to be about 800 cal/hr. I'm not sure how they arrive at that, since the newer models have a knob for higher resistance, and 115ft/min seems pretty easy. Perfect for burning a lot of calories during steady state.

The Versaclimber has a reputation of being a (some would say the) torture device among all the gym cardio equipment. But, the advantage to the machine is that you don't have to work that hard in order to get the HR up and tire yourself. And that's perfect for HIIT as well.

The other advantage is that, I'm at a point, where I don't have to worry about losing air on deads and squats, even if I do the 20-rep variety. And I can manage the burn pretty well.

cheers,
Jules

Joe.Muscle
03-12-2005, 10:08 PM
Thanks guys for all the input I am going to add 15 mins of HIIT into my program. 3 to 4 days as week and I will let you guys know or post pics in about 4 weeks.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Thanks again vicous and dkm

imported_hannesburk
03-13-2005, 05:06 PM
Isn't versaclimber and rowing etc. also superior to the bikes, because it involves much more musculature and therefore generates more fatloss as fat is burnt in the mitochondrias of the muscles..

regards

Fausto
03-14-2005, 03:29 AM
Joe

Tom Venuto claims that by doing 20 - 30 minutes early morning cardio (non-specific) before breakfast does the trick, if that what he does by all means it is worth a try, most of us have that problem, specially after a certain age *http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

You can check out his site Tom Venuto's (http://www.fitren.com)

Fausto

Heavy Duty dude
03-14-2005, 09:42 AM
Quote[/b] (Lance @ Mar. 11 2005,7:03)]
Quote[/b] (vicious @ Mar. 11 2005,1:26)]Yeah, that's basically the problem. *Dieting down without any cardio means that BF loss will be indiscriminate between visceral and subcateneous fat. *If you want to speed up fat loss around the tummy, cardio needs to be added. *Both HIIT and steady-state will do fine for your needs.
cheers,
Jules
What's the difference between visceral and subcateneous fat?
I didn't know cardio changes what fat stores are burned when cutting. *That's amazing. *=)
So what should i know about cutting and cardio? *I've mostly just dieted, never did much cardio out of preference, i find it very boring.
I read an article from Bryan last week about that. It said that cardio burns more subq fat than just dieting.

I tried to find it to give you the link but I couldn't find it. I think it was on thinkmuscle.com.

imported_dkm1987
03-14-2005, 10:30 AM
Quote[/b] ]I tried to find it to give you the link but I couldn't find it. I think it was on thinkmuscle.com
You talking about his one HDD?

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/article....ing.htm (http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/cardio-and-precontest-dieting.htm)

Heavy Duty dude
03-14-2005, 11:13 AM
No.. But I found it!

Here it is!
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/newsletter/029.htm#2

Joe.Muscle
03-14-2005, 06:35 PM
SO to recap...basically you can loose some fat...like in my case i have gone from 16%bf to 11% bf with diet...but there becomes a point..were you have to add cardio b/c cardio is what will burn those calories around the midsection???

Is this correct?? http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Heavy Duty dude
03-15-2005, 07:15 AM
It seems to be what these studies would suggest.

However it seems that people get to low bf with the UD2, and you don't do much cardio on it. So..

Maybe the optimum is the combination of both. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

Heavy Duty dude
03-18-2005, 06:46 PM
Read this.. Lyle explains how to get rid of stubborn fat..:

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....13;t=23 (http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=23)

(3rd post)