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savagebeast
10-03-2005, 08:13 PM
From the First 5x5 Cycle (http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=Post;CODE=06;f=16;t=111;p=34) thread:


Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] (Hypertrophier @ Oct. 03 2005,9:39)]Okay, you know some names, but do you know what they say?
You think load and unload is complicated? Every load and unload article deals at first with the history and some filling lines. Summed up, itīs just this: Do something, then do less. That is load and unload. After you load and unload, you load and unload again. No magic, and no state to reach. If you focus on a state you could get some real problems, cause the individuals arenīt the same. So they have to use their instinct, and you should know that, after reading all your lines from these authorities. Perhaps you should search some more about the topic, especially some other authors who donīt make it that complicated.
Your kidding right?
Load and unload. you can relate this into a single session, micro or macro cycle
now what is the point of dual factor? maybe its to seperate it into a macro cycle focus, with a desire to instill adequate fatigue to get maximal supercompensation.?

What level of loading will achieve this?
what level of unloading will achieve this?
what level of fatigue needs to be achieved?
how will you measure this fatigue?
Why do the vast majority of the training world not recommend this for beginers to intermediate trainees?

Aaron, I'm not trying to argue with you here, just seeking some clarification about loading & deloading, dual factor training, and why this is not recommended "for beginers to intermediate lifters."

Here are a few quotes from Pendlay. While I know he is not in favor of strict and carefully planned out periodization and unloading/deloading schemes for beginners and intermediates, it seems to me that he achieves the same effect, just without the meticulous planning.

(http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=401451&postcount=2 (http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=401451&postcount=2))
Quote[/b] ]lets say a person has a previous best of 5 sets of five weight with 300lbs, and has done one set of five with 325lbs for this person i may start with mondays weight of 285lbs, wendsdays weight of 255lbs, and on friday work up to a set of five with 310lbs,

...

with people new to this program i usually use it for 6-7 weeks, because we start more conservatively and it takes longer to get the benefits. with people who have done it before i generally go with 4 weeks at a time and go with setting records on monday and friday of week 3, week 4 is to try even more weight if week 3 was succesful, if it wasnt, then try record weights again. after this routine is over, we drop the frequency to about two workouts a week or even a bit less , and drop volume usually to 3 sets of 3.

the first week, we use the same weight as on the last monday of the 5 sets of five workout. this helps with recuperation. then, as in before we add weight each workout, this time aiming to break records on the fourth or fifth 3 sets of 3 workout.

sometimes we cycle on down to 1 set of three for two or three workouts, other times we have an offloading week then start with the five sets of five again.
(http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalel....8&st=20 (http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&st=20))
Quote[/b] ]the EASIEST method we use for squats, and the one which rip used for beginners, is a simple pyramid program, the weights are pyramided BOTH monday and friday... and another leg exercise is used for wednesday, usually front squats for the young and athletically minded, sometimes leg press for the old and feeble.

...

at some point, of course, this doesnt work anymore. so now we change the monday workout to 5 sets of 5, still with heavy front squats or for some lighter back squats on wednesday, and the same pyramid on friday, trying for one top set of 5. the 5 sets on monday with the same weiight will be some amount less than the current personal record for one set of 5.

usually with this raise in volume, the weights are set somewhat lighter than they were, and people are given a few weeks to work back to their personal records, then try to go past them, invariably they will pass them, and invariably eventually they will stall again...

at this point we usually lower the volume of training, raise the intensity, in some form we will go with lower reps, lower amounts of sets, cut out a day of squatting, something to allow a raising of the numbers... again, the numbers will raise for a while, then stall again.

a this point, another raise in volume is needed, and at this point we will go to the program that most usually associate with the "5 by 5"... squatting 5 sets of 5 with the same weight 3 times a week, lighter on wednesday and heavier on mon and fri.
(I can't find a link but I saved it on my computer)
Quote[/b] ]When a 16 year old starts, a beginner, they start out on a purely linear program, no variation, no periodization. They squat up to a max set of 5 two days per week, Monday and Friday, and do front squats on Wednesday. Each Monday and Friday if they were successful the workout before, they try 5 or 10 more pounds. If they only got 3 or 4 reps on the last squat day, they try the same weight over. Simple as that. That usually works for anywhere from a month to a year. When it stops working, when they stop increasing the weight at least 5 lbs a week, we switch to something different.

Usually we go to doing 5 sets of 5 on Monday, front squatting on Wednesday, then work to a max set of 5 on Friday. So a guy who can squat say 100 kilos for 5, when starting this program, would do maybe 80 or 85kilos for 5 sets of 5 on Monday, then front squat on wed, then try 102 kilos for a set of 5 on Friday. Pretty much that simple. We will stay with this basic program for a long time, and even advanced lifters come back to it often. To keep it working we do different things. If a lifter is stalled, we might drop all weights back 20 kilos, and work back up 5 kilos at a time coming back to PR levels in 3-4 weeks and hopefully passing them. We might add chains to the bar on one day, usually Monday, or bands. We might go to 2 or 3 work sets on Friday for 3-4 weeks. We might try for max triples, doubles, or max single on Friday for a few weeks. But we still are sticking to the basic plan of a high volume day and a day of "max effort" or trying for a personal record.

....

Everything stops working eventually. When this happens, we will go to some longer term planning. For instance, we might do 5 sets of 5 Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, for 3-4 weeks. Obviously with this type of volume, the weights will be a little lower and you probably won’t make PR's, you’ll be tired. After a few weeks of this, we will go to something like 2-3 sets of 3 twice a week for 3-4 weeks... less volume allowing for recovery and almost always improved strength by the end.

All subsequent programs we do are a variation on this last theme, a few weeks of higher workload, being tired and sore, followed by decreased workload and trying for personal records at the end.
How is any of this different from dual factor? The way I see it, Pendlay's training philosophy isn't all that complicated: start off with linear progression until you hit a wall and can't increase the weights any more, then alternate between periods of high volume and high intensity. During the high volume periods, it is hard to achieve PRs because of the accumulated fatigue. The high intensity periods that follow allow for supercompensation and achieving new PRs.

Isn't this basically the same as dual factor or loading/deloading, just without the fancy periodization and advanced planning?

Aaron_F
10-03-2005, 09:41 PM
Quote[/b] ]Isn't this basically the same as dual factor or loading/deloading, just without the fancy periodization and advanced planning?
His initial ones are basically single factor, but as he goes thru in each thread he starts splitting the planning out into macro (months)rather than micro (weeks) cycles. You fatigue in the week and come back the following week after compensation and hit it again. In dual factor the weights are less likely to go up weekly, as you are trying to cause fatigue rather than achieve weekly gains in weight (as in single factor)

and you will notice a reoccuring trend in pendlays posts


Quote[/b] ]at some point, of course, this doesnt work anymore

Quote[/b] ]Everything stops working eventually. When this happens, we will go to some longer term planning
adn i continues with other points that I have seen from him and his coworkers.

They do basic stuff first and when that stops working they raise up and up.

Much like westside start at rep effort stuff, then add in some max effort stuff and finally they add in dynamioc effort as the others stop producing gains.

Starting with Dual factor adds another layer of planning (and complexity to get the fatigue and recovery levels just right) that is not needed with most people (and would not help most noobs). the DF program that Madcow has which is an old pendlay program is just one potential application that is written down for the masses. Does not mean its suitable for everyone or anything, or that the deload period is optimal for you, or the loading period is optimal or excessive. Its just a sample on how to set up a program with the focus on longer term.

combat_action
10-04-2005, 12:05 AM
I don't think duel factor "garbage" is too complicated either. I agree that it is not needed for a beginner since they'll progress no matter what. I've been doing DF for quite a while now and I wish I did something like this a long time ago instead of going balls to the wall for months and months at a time.

Quote from a very uncomplicated writeup by Kelly Baggett

Quote[/b] ]
Comparing the One-Factor Approach to the 2-Factor Approach

Let's start off by comparing a "one-factor" training approach to a "2-factor" approach. We have 2 four week training schemes. One we'll call "A" and will be the one factor approach. The other we'll call "B" and is the 2-factor approach. Here's what they look like.

A: Here we train according to the traditional supercompensation curve. We train then fully recover, train then fully recover etc. Let's say we train once every 4-5 days and recover completely between workouts for 4-weeks.

B: Here we train hard for the first 3 weeks three times per week so that we never ever are completely recovered from any workouts. Then, on the 4th week we train only once or twice the entire week at a low intensity and low volume. During the 4th week we're allowing fatigue to dissipate so that we can display the fitness we've gained from the previous 3 week's of training. During this low intensity/low frequency week, the physiological indicators we've stimulate the previous 3 weeks "rebound" back up and above where they were before.

Ok. Now if you were to compare those 2 schemes we would find that version B will actually bring about greater gains particularly for intermediate and advanced athletes - That is providing the athletes are in a well rested state prior to initiating the 4 week block of training. Homeostasis is disrupted and prolonged during the 3 week loading period. Although we won't see a whole lot of progress during this 3 week phase itself, when we pull back on the volume during the reduced loading period the functional indicators will then rebound back above baseline. The ultimate "rebound", or performance increase, in scheme B will be greater then the summation of smaller rebounds from scheme A.

So what we're doing is building up fatigue and fitness by over-reaching slightly and then pulling back on the fatigue by under-reaching. Nothing really complicated about it. http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif


Quote[/b] ] How You Can Apply and Benefit From Planned Over-Reaching

The basic tenet is that instead of always looking at each workout as a seperate "fatiguing" session, followed by a seperate "recovery" session of a day or two of rest, begin thinking in terms of weeks. In other words, you have one, two or three weeks which are "fatiguing." Think of this time period the same way some people think of one workout. you accumulate fatigue the whole time, you never "completely" recover. You might make gains but you're never really completely recovered. Then you have another one or 2 weeks in which you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity and allow recovery to take place. I favor keeping intensity fairly high, cutting volume by at least half, and slightly lowering frequency. in any event the overall training stress is lower.

The main benefit of the higher volume phase isn't the gains you make on it, but the gains you make when you switch to a lower volume phase.


Quote[/b] ] ....He'd follow that for 3 weeks and then unload for 1 week. The unloading period consisted of 1/2 the volume of on field work on Monday and Friday and elimination of plyo, speed, agility work on Wednesday.

After about 6 weeks of training, it was obvious to me he had got about all he was gonna get from this scheme. He seemed a little burned out and he complained of sore joints. I knew that this just meant he was slightly over-reached and his perfomance would rebound up big time once we tapered into a lower volume phase. He's always been able to transfer functional ability into technical ability. From experience we knew that as his vertical jump goes so does everything else and as his shoulder press and incline press goes so does his bench press. We ended up dramatically lowering the overall lower body volume.

savagebeast
10-04-2005, 12:05 AM
Quote[/b] ]His initial ones are basically single factor

That's one thing I've noticed about Pendlay: he's real big on "if you can increase the weight on a weekly basis, do it." Only when this stops working does he suggest something else.


Quote[/b] ]You fatigue in the week and come back the following week after compensation and hit it again.

So in a sense, it is dual factor, except on a much shorter time scale (weeks instead of months)?

And now for a question about my own training:

So I've been following Madcow's 5x5 variation. I'm fully aware that Madcow's 5x5 is not necessarily any more special than anyone else's 5x5 variation. I just happen to like his choice of exercises.

Things were going great, but now I've pretty much reached the limits of my current strength; I don't think I can continue to increase the weight week to week with my current rep scheme. However, I've had no problems with the volume. Therefore, I'm thinking it would be best if I switched to a high volume phase for 1 or 2 weeks before entering into the intensity phase. This way I'll be a little worn out from the high volume so that when I enter the intensity phase I can take advantage of supercompensation.

My plan for the "volume weeks" is to change it up to 5x5 with a fixed weight for all 3 days. If that doesn't tire me out, as I suspect it might not, I'll up the frequency. I was thinking maybe 1 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, then go to the intensity phase. This should be enough to get me tired out, but not overtrained.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

combat_action
10-04-2005, 01:25 AM
Don't start to finger #### it. *If you are doing Madcow's version of the program, then you are in the volume phase, correct? *He uses alot of 1x5 pyramids, which is more for beginners anyways. *I'd say that once you are done with the volume phase, deload, then go straight into the intensity phase. *If you are maxed out on strength, then it doesn't make sense to start something completely different and try to go for more days in a row, ect... *If it isn't killing you by the end of the volume phase, then something is wrong.

In the future, if you are finding this isn't enough, next cycle through do all sets 5x5, with the only pyramid being Friday squats to a max set. This is what I did, and worked great for me....Obviously looking at my sig, which was the result of the program.

Aaron_F
10-04-2005, 01:27 AM
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif5-->
Quote[/b] (savagebeast @ Oct. 04 2005,6http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif5)]So in a sense, it is dual factor, except on a much shorter time scale (weeks instead of months)?
um, that is the only differentiation between the two. Short term vs long term fatigue. If we look at the chart, you can look at supercompensation from day, week or longer... so its just a matter of where you place your attention

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3033/supercompensation8sb.jpg


Quote[/b] ]Things were going great, but now I've pretty much reached the limits of my current strength; I don't think I can continue to increase the weight week to week with my current rep scheme. However, I've had no problems with the volume. Therefore, I'm thinking it would be best if I switched to a high volume phase for 1 or 2 weeks before entering into the intensity phase. This way I'll be a little worn out from the high volume so that when I enter the intensity phase I can take advantage of supercompensation.
My plan for the "volume weeks" is to change it up to 5x5 with a fixed weight for all 3 days. If that doesn't tire me out, as I suspect it might not, I'll up the frequency. I was thinking maybe 1 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, then go to the intensity phase. This should be enough to get me tired out, but not overtrained.
Does this sound like a reasonable plan?sounds like a plan, just keep track on how you feel. in terms of overall wellness/feelings of fatigue/joint pain/muscle pain etc. rather non-specific unfortunately.
Otherwise you can just do something like pendlay, and drop the load a little nad work up again or alter exercises slightly nad work up.. lots of options http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hypertrophier
10-04-2005, 03:41 AM
The badest thing that can happen, is a person with little knowledge of a topic. You can profit from a person who knows everything of a topic and you can profit from a person who knows nothing. But the person with little topic knowledge is the most dangerous one, because the output doesnīt match the input.

What the hell does load and unload has to do with the single or dual factor theory? Why canīt a beginner play in the dual factor area? Pendlay and the others describe it very well, why canīt you understand what they say?

The single factor theory deals with with the "destroy a muscle and wait a week", but the dual factor says, that you can train more than once a week. Why is the output of you (your posts) totally different from the input (the qoutes)? You should read and learn, and differ the whole information. I see no chance or need for me, to describe all the given information for you again.

Itīs all that, load and unload. At the single factor, the load is one workout, and the unload is the rest of the week. At the dual factor the load is some timeframe (individual), and the unload is another timeframe. If you canīt see what i mean, then do your homework. And by the way, read more from the others, especially the "inventors".

Aaron_F
10-04-2005, 03:52 AM
Quote[/b] (Hypertrophier @ Oct. 04 2005,9:41)]Pendlay and the others describe it very well, why canīt you understand what they say?
The single factor theory deals with with the "destroy a muscle and wait a week", but the dual factor says, that you can train more than once a week.
Now Bilbobeu,

Why dont you show us where it says this about single factor.
SPECIFICALLY where it says 'destroy a muscle and wait a week'? *(I guess you are using Matt Reynolds comments *- seeing as he used that exact terminology - about using Bodybuilding once per week as the idea of supercompensation = destroying the muscle, then ask yourself what matt means when he writes that "With Supercompensation, a day or two (up to a week) represents a period of rest." how does that fit that supercompensation = destroy and rest for a week..? *2 days to a week...)
Bodybuilding generally does utilize a single factor approach (usually) but htey are modulating their volume to their desired frequency. * Even HST utilizes some of hte concepts of single factor, (protein synthesis raises and then drops by 48hrs - so time to reload) but you still end up with a higher frequency basically mathcing the lower end of matts range for supercompensation...
but either way, Destroying a muscle is "loading" the muscle, and waiting a week is "unloading"
so doing so is dual factor? *just loading and unloading...
and where did I say begineers cant do it?

Quote[/b] ]Why is the output of you (your posts) totally different from the input (the qoutes)? You should read and learn, and differ the whole information. I see no chance or need for me, to describe all the given information for you again.
why dont you provide something of substance instead of repeating the same garbage. *Surely its simple to do as its just load and unload.

Quote[/b] ]Itīs all that, load and unload. At the single factor, the load is one workout, and the unload is the rest of the week. At the dual factor the load is some timeframe (individual), and the unload is another timeframe. If you canīt see what i mean, then do your homework. And by the way, read more from the others, especially the "inventors".
I would be happy to see where anyone says supercompensation is destroying a muscle and supercompensation is training once per week, but unfortunately its not.

Hypertrophier
10-06-2005, 03:22 AM
Donīt know why you insult me with words nobody knows, but if thatīs your style, itīs okay. Do you have any more swear-words in new zealand?

And donīt hang up on some words or phrases that i use. And i am pretty sure, that i use words or phrases that you never read. In the internet, there isnīt much information. Itīs obvious whoīs just a bad quoter.


Letīs start again.
Do you know what a load is? Can you give us the definition of it? And can you give us some russian originator names, that found these adaptations or training models?

Aaron_F
10-06-2005, 04:54 AM
Whats the matter Bilbobeu, annoyed that people actually questioned you at bodyrecomposition.com?


Quote[/b] ]
And donīt hang up on some words or phrases that i use. And i am pretty sure, that i use words or phrases that you never read. In the internet, there isnīt much information. Itīs obvious whoīs just a bad quoter.What information have you provided at all? oh thats right, your the avoiding everything


Quote[/b] ]Letīs start again.
Do you know what a load is? Can you give us the definition of it? And can you give us some russian originator names, that found these adaptations or training models?Nice sidestep, why not awnser my questions first?

Hypertrophier
10-06-2005, 06:07 AM
Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Oct. 06 2005,4:54)]Whats the matter Bilbobeu, annoyed that people actually questioned you at bodyrecomposition.com?

Quote[/b] ]
And donīt hang up on some words or phrases that i use. And i am pretty sure, that i use words or phrases that you never read. In the internet, there isnīt much information. Itīs obvious whoīs just a bad quoter.What information have you provided at all? oh thats right, your the avoiding everything

Quote[/b] ]Letīs start again.
Do you know what a load is? Can you give us the definition of it? And can you give us some russian originator names, that found these adaptations or training models?Nice sidestep, why not awnser my questions first?
What the #### is your problem? If you call me again an bilbobeu then you can get the answers yourself. Donīt know what a bilbobeu is, but i donīt want to get insulted by you, just because you are a HST expert. Probably you are just that, a HST expert. Everything else is not known to ya.

You donīt know the basics of loading, dual factor models or anything else. Ask and you will get questions, but donīt talk #### like you did the posts before. You got no idea behind the topic, you are just a bad quoter, so get your @$$ up and ask the guys that know more than you. And pendlay is just one of them, there are others. Or are the russians all taught by pendlay? Abadjev has learnt from pendlay? Definitely not! And here you get it back, you bilbobeu.

Aaron_F
10-06-2005, 04:03 PM
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif7-->
Quote[/b] (Hypertrophier @ Oct. 07 2005,12http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif7)]What the #### is your problem? If you call me again an bilbobeu then you can get the answers yourself. Donīt know what a bilbobeu is, but i donīt want to get insulted by you, just because you are a HST expert. Probably you are just that, a HST expert. Everything else is not known to ya.
Lets see two germans with the same condescending prose, both with exactly the same IP addy, both who have something for dual factor and both avoiding awnsering any questions. *And how the posting there suddendly stops and you start back here again? And your two different people? *

Quote[/b] ]
You donīt know the basics of loading, dual factor models or anything else. Ask and you will get questions, but donīt talk #### like you did the posts before. You got no idea behind the topic, you are just a bad quoter, so get your @$$ up and ask the guys that know more than you. And pendlay is just one of them, there are others. Or are the russians all taught by pendlay? Abadjev has learnt from pendlay? Definitely not! And here you get it back, you bilbobeu.
Are you stupid? *where did I say that Pendlay taught Abadjev ? *
He is only providing exampels of what can be done. *
You seen to be the one caught up in the bodybuilding paradigm. *I have never said I know everything, but you seem to be the one with their head stuck up somewhere.
*
Getting asked specific questions and ignoring them is the mark of a troll.

NWlifter
10-06-2005, 06:39 PM
Not to get in the middle of a brawl here.... http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif But, what we really need to see (and it's not out there yet) is some science showing that one can accumulate a hypertrophic stimulus. Two factor works great for athletes who need more 'fitness' ie. conditioning, but no where is there any information showing one can 'build on' the hypertrophic stimulus and have it all come crashing on later during a deload/intensification/etc. time period. In fact, if you really read a lot on hypertrophy/protein turnover, it tends to fit a single factor model better since the MPS increases are so short after a workout.

Ron

Aaron_F
10-06-2005, 07:03 PM
Quote[/b] (NWlifter @ Oct. 07 2005,12:39)]Not to get in the middle of a brawl here.... *http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif *But, what we really need to see (and it's not out there yet) is some science showing that one can accumulate a hypertrophic stimulus. Two factor works great for athletes who need more 'fitness' ie. conditioning, but no where is there any information showing one can 'build on' the hypertrophic stimulus and have it all come crashing on later during a deload/intensification/etc. time period. In fact, if you really read a lot on hypertrophy/protein turnover, it tends to fit a single factor model better since the MPS increases are so short after a workout.
Ron
of course, but we are also on a strength forum, and strength is one component of 'fitness'.


Hypertrophy appears to be the culmination of many small peaks in gene and protein synthesis, which builds up over time. With HST you are trying to keep ahead of the recovery wave, so you are constantly 'fatiguing' until you get to the SD period of unloading. But you dont get the same 'supercompensation' for doing this compared with dual factor training. Because as you become more trained, the level of protein synthesis wont be higher, it will be lower. Int he strength example, as you become more trained, strength should be higher (if your doing it right) than when you were less trained.

There maybe some 'visual' supercompensation in the muscle due to changes in glycogen and water volume within the myocyte (ie glycogen depletion and loading to achieve glycogen supercompensation) but that is a seperate issue to the mechanical protein.

NWlifter
10-06-2005, 07:48 PM
Quote[/b] ]of course, but we are also on a strength forum, and strength is one component of 'fitness'.

that's where I'm not sure I see how that fits, I can see fitness helping the display of strength, but not building it...



Quote[/b] ]Hypertrophy appears to be the culmination of many small peaks in gene and protein synthesis, which builds up over time.

Right... but studies showing training too soon delays synthesis rather than expounding upon it. Nitrogen balance can go negative during too much accumulation, then once that phase is over, you still would only receive 'your' maximum upregulation for the 48-72 hour time period. Netting a loss...


Quote[/b] ] With HST you are trying to keep ahead of the recovery wave, so you are constantly 'fatiguing' until you get to the SD period of unloading.

Hmm... I talked with Jules about this before and his thoughts, which seemed make sense, was that HST is banking on recovery between sessions.


Quote[/b] ]But you dont get the same 'supercompensation' for doing this compared with dual factor training.

That's the theory, but that's where the science lacks unfortunately. There really isn't anything out there showing it's possible to build stimulus effects. Conversely, it seems to cause more catabolic effects.


Quote[/b] ]Because as you become more trained, the level of protein synthesis wont be higher, it will be lower. Int he strength example, as you become more trained, strength should be higher (if your doing it right) than when you were less trained.

OK, I see where were differing on our outlook....
Once a person has become familiar with movement patterns, hypertrophy is the main way of increasing strength. The best strength program yeild hypertrophy in the muscles needed, and the best hypertrophy program will show strength gains from that hypertrophy.

Again, I can see the fitness gains for athletes, just doesn't really fit a hypertrophic/strength model.