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Thread: HST and Eat/Stop/Eat

  1. #1

    Default HST and Eat/Stop/Eat

    I've been doing HST for a year and a half and really love the program. I've added solid mass and am now at the point where I would like to lose some body fat %... In doing research I came across Intermittent Fasting, Leangains, and Eat/Stop/Eat programs. I think I am leaning towards the eat-stop-eat at this point. I workout M/W/F bright and early at 5am. Am looking at a schedule like this:

    Monday - AM HST Workout
    Tuesday - Light AM Cardio Workout
    Wednesday - AM HST Workout - Begin fast at 6pm
    Thursday - Rest - Fast until 6pm
    Friday - AM HST Workout
    Saturday - maybe light cardio/Rest - Begin fast at 6pm
    Sunday - Rest - Fast until 6pm

    I think this is a plan that is simple enough to follow and would still yield nice results. Everything I've come across seems to say that I won't lose muscle doing eat-stop-eat or IF if you continue to strength train 3 days a week. I will still continue to utilize all of the HST principles in my workouts to maintain muscle mass. Taking creatine mono and whey protein only as supplements.

    Any advice or suggestions on the above would be appreciated.
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  2. #2
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    Is there a reason you don't want to fast every day? Have you done fasting before? I see you are planning on doing two 24 hour fasts. If you haven't fasted before, 24 hours can be really difficult to survive through. I personally prefer an approach where you fast through most of the day then eat through the last portion of the day, beginning your fast just before bedtime. Psychologically, this is much easier for most people to stick to.
    If you plan to do the 24 hour fasts, it would be better to start it 24 hours after you have done weight training, as this is when protein synthesis hits it's peak and begins to decline back to baseline. So I would rearrange them so that you are fasting through most of Tuesday and Thursday. However, the 16/8 setup is much easier to maintain, so just wondering why you are leaning more toward the 24 hour fasts?
    PRs:

    Squat - 485 lbs
    Bench - 315 lbs
    Deadlift - 635 lbs
    Total - 1435 lbs
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Is there a reason you don't want to fast every day? Have you done fasting before? I see you are planning on doing two 24 hour fasts. If you haven't fasted before, 24 hours can be really difficult to survive through. I personally prefer an approach where you fast through most of the day then eat through the last portion of the day, beginning your fast just before bedtime. Psychologically, this is much easier for most people to stick to.
    If you plan to do the 24 hour fasts, it would be better to start it 24 hours after you have done weight training, as this is when protein synthesis hits it's peak and begins to decline back to baseline. So I would rearrange them so that you are fasting through most of Tuesday and Thursday. However, the 16/8 setup is much easier to maintain, so just wondering why you are leaning more toward the 24 hour fasts?

    I was leaning more towards the 24 hour fast for simplicity and for my lifestyle. I workout at 5am. I don't have any other time to do so. If I ate breakfast (which would be light as I eat at work, instant oatmeal/protein shake) and then a decent lunch, my 8 hour window for eating would be until 3pm. I wouldn't be able to eat dinner with my family as we eat around 5:30-6pm. That's where I came up with the 24 hour fast, twice a week. Really it doesn't sound that terrible to me. Especially since I won't be training on the days I fast. 8 hours of it will be sleeping so I think I could manage.
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  4. #4
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    I understand working it around dinner with the family. Have you considered not eating before or immediately after your workout? This varies on the individual, some have horrible workouts in a fasted state, some have great workouts in a fasted state.

    Anyway, I see nothing wrong with your plan, are you going to keep your calories at maintenance when eating? Will you be carb cycling at all? You can eat more carbs days that you are lifting, and cut them back a bit on days you aren't. I also like to eat slightly more overall on days I lift and slightly less on days I do not lift.
    PRs:

    Squat - 485 lbs
    Bench - 315 lbs
    Deadlift - 635 lbs
    Total - 1435 lbs
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    I understand working it around dinner with the family. Have you considered not eating before or immediately after your workout? This varies on the individual, some have horrible workouts in a fasted state, some have great workouts in a fasted state.

    Anyway, I see nothing wrong with your plan, are you going to keep your calories at maintenance when eating? Will you be carb cycling at all? You can eat more carbs days that you are lifting, and cut them back a bit on days you aren't. I also like to eat slightly more overall on days I lift and slightly less on days I do not lift.
    I typically workout on an empty stomach as I workout immediately after I get up. I may have a small protein shake with some raw quick oats mixed in for a little carbs before the workout. After my workout I will have a protein shake and when I get to work a bowl of instant oatmeal about 30-40 minutes after I work out. I will eat a sensible lunch and dinner. I confess to not really counting carbs, protein, etc... I'm at the point where I'm just trying to eat healthy and now want to shed about 10lbs at least, preferrably from my mid section. I'm not overweight (6'3'' about 205lbs) but I'd like more definition at this point. I need to cut some body fat in order to do this. I'm going to do a week or two of eat-stop-eat and if that doesn't work maybe I'll do the IF and push my breakfast time back to like 10am and eat from 10am to 6pm every day?
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  6. #6
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    Yeah give your plan a shot and if it doesn't give you results as fast as you would like, try IF. I think both will work for your purposes. You don't really have to count calories on IF however, you will obviously get faster/better results if you do. And if you did decide to count, then of course eating at or slightly above maintenance on workout days with the additional calories being from carbs, then cutting those additional calories on nonworkout days would give you good results. However, not really that necessary. The main thing I recommend to do is just eat a small breakfast, a small lunch and then have a good sized dinner. This usually keeps you at maintenance.

    I've done 24 hour fasting before and it did work. I didn't like it as much as the 16/8 setup but it just depends on how well you do. I get brain fog after 18 hours or so of not eating. An EC stack can help with this if it is something you can tolerate or have access to.
    PRs:

    Squat - 485 lbs
    Bench - 315 lbs
    Deadlift - 635 lbs
    Total - 1435 lbs
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
    Yeah give your plan a shot and if it doesn't give you results as fast as you would like, try IF. I think both will work for your purposes. You don't really have to count calories on IF however, you will obviously get faster/better results if you do. And if you did decide to count, then of course eating at or slightly above maintenance on workout days with the additional calories being from carbs, then cutting those additional calories on nonworkout days would give you good results. However, not really that necessary. The main thing I recommend to do is just eat a small breakfast, a small lunch and then have a good sized dinner. This usually keeps you at maintenance.

    I've done 24 hour fasting before and it did work. I didn't like it as much as the 16/8 setup but it just depends on how well you do. I get brain fog after 18 hours or so of not eating. An EC stack can help with this if it is something you can tolerate or have access to.
    When I say I won't be counting calories I don't mean I will be eating badly. I'll do my best to eat clean and try to get as much protein in as I can. I just don't count every carb or gram of protein that I consume. I know that I should but with three kids under 6 and a 10 hr a day job, time just doesn't allow. It's tough enough to get out of bed at 4:30 am to get my HST in. I will attempt to do the eat-stop-eat first and see if I can handle 24 hrs of fasting. I'm not sure if I will be able to or not since I've never attempted it. But I think if I put it into practice for a few weeks and start to see results then it will be hard to go back from.
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  8. #8

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    Totentanz, what have you found in doing IF and muscle mass? I've read all the research and reviews that claim that you won't lose any muscle if you are weight training three times a week which HST obviously does. I always go back to the old line of thinking that your body will burn muscle if it is in need of energy.
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  9. #9
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    I managed a recomp on IF while at 195 lbs of lean mass, which is supposedly damn close to the maximal amount my body can hold naturally. That means that I was at an even higher risk of losing muscle than people who are further from their genetic potential, yet I managed to lose fat and actually gain a small amount of lean mass on a (albeit slight) weekly calorie deficit.

    The key is that you have to be lifting heavy enough. I would not do 15s while trying to recomp or lose bodyfat. Your body will only really dig into the muscle if you are not lifting heavy enough, not keeping protein high enough or in special scenarios where you are already very close to your genetic max. At your genetic max, the amount of lean mass you can naturally hold depends on your bodyfat percentage. So leaner, you will not be able to hold as much lean mass as you can while carrying more bodyfat. This only applies to naturals. Obviously if you used prohormones or steroids during a cut, you will retain a greater amount of lean mass than you would as a natural just as AAS in conjunction with an IF setup pretty much guarantees you can recomp.

    So... for you, skip the 15s, don't start your 10s any lighter than 75-80% of your 10 rep max and keep protein at least 1 g per lb of bodyweight. If you do that, then there is really no concern about significant loss of lean mass. Remember, it is extremely difficult for the body to get energy from muscle, realistically speaking.
    PRs:

    Squat - 485 lbs
    Bench - 315 lbs
    Deadlift - 635 lbs
    Total - 1435 lbs
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  10. #10

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    Question for totentanz (sorry mule, not my intention to hijack the topic)

    If you had success with IF while dieting and actually built some muscle on a kcal deficit, wouldn't make sense to eat IF continuously, even on bulking? What are in your opinion the pros and cons?

    I am starting the renegade diet myself, which is (kind of) a combination of IF and paleo. I thought of doing ESE but the daily fasts seemed tough. On IF, on the other hand, the large feast at night helps my body ignore I'm on a deficit, making dieting quite easy to follow

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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