Am I Squatting Wrong?

F

Franko

New Member
This cycle I added barbell squats to my routine and stopped using the smith machine. I've really enjoyed the freedom of movement and the knee pain I was experiencing disappeared.

Anyways, Im getting soreness in the high outer portion of my quads more than anywhere else (abductors?) Im just curious if this is normal for someone just starting squats or if its an indication of my form being incorrect.

thanks for your responses in advance
 
Depending on how wide your stance is, this can effect which muscles seem to take more of a beating. The squats you are doing now aren't locked in the vertical plane anymore either, since you quit using the smith machine, so like firefighter said, your body is forced to work for stabilizing the weight.
 
You are finally doing proper squats.

Here's something to help out, Squat theory and execution with this you just can't go wrong!
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The picture he paints with smith machine squating is doom and gloom. The place I work out right now has no squat rack, just a smith machine. Is anyone convinced that squating with a smith machine will destroy you? I am currently not deadlifting simply becuase I simplified my workout for cutting. Should I switch over to the deadlift and just not do squat?

I have so far not experienced any knee pain, but I am not lifting really heavy weights at this point. My max 2 set 5RM for A2G squats is 160 lbs + bar.
 
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(bgates1654 @ Aug. 08 2006,00:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The picture he paints with smith machine squating is doom and gloom. The place I work out right now has no squat rack, just a smith machine. Is anyone convinced that squating with a smith machine will destroy you? I am currently not deadlifting simply becuase I simplified my workout for cutting. Should I switch over to the deadlift and just not do squat?

I have so far not experienced any knee pain, but I am not lifting really heavy weights at this point. My max 2 set 5RM for A2G squats is 160 lbs + bar.</div>
You can avoid some of the pitfalls of a smith machine by placing your feet in front of you enough such that you minimize shin movement during execution of the squat.

Feels kind of goofy though.

You could always learn to clean + front squat.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You can avoid some of the pitfalls of a smith machine by placing your feet in front of you enough such that you minimize shin movement during execution of the squat.

Feels kind of goofy though.</div>

Interesting... I actually seemed to have done that automatically. Getting under the bar like one would do a normal squat felt uncomfortable and akward. Putting my feet about 4-6in forward seemed to reduce it to just akwardness. Its a bit like sitting in a chair rather than doing a squat. Thats good to know. Perhaps this is why I have not noticed any knee issues. Thanks!
 
ah!...so I'm doing my smith machine squats the right way..
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like bgates the gym I go to has no squat rack so I'm forced to use the smith machine..thanks mikey!...
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I disagree with the foot placement (I think the smith machine should be avoided at all costs).  The knees should go over/past the toes when squatting.  Try getting into the start of a deadlift while keeping your knees in line with your ankles.

I agree with mikeynov's suggestion about learning to clean and front squat though.
 
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(liegelord @ Aug. 09 2006,17:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I disagree with the foot placement (I think the smith machine should be avoided at all costs).  The knees should go over/past the toes when squatting.  Try getting into the start of a deadlift while keeping your knees in line with your ankles. .</div>
depends on why you are squatting.

But saying you shouldnt do one thing in squat because you cant do it in deadlift is pointless, they are different lifts requiring different technique
 
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(liegelord @ Aug. 08 2006,23:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I disagree with the foot placement (I think the smith machine should be avoided at all costs). The knees should go over/past the toes when squatting. Try getting into the start of a deadlift while keeping your knees in line with your ankles.

I agree with mikeynov's suggestion about learning to clean and front squat though.</div>
It's impossible to not have knees travel over toes in a squat to some degree for many people (though some can keep shins pretty damn perpendicular in a power squat), and absolutely necessary in front/oly squats to some degree.

My only point was that you could reduce the weirdness of a smith machine by minimizing the shin movement using my suggestion. At that point, it's sort of like a weird leg press that also loads the spine, but it's still a valid exercise that's not really going to HURT people as long as their mechanics are otherwise good (maintain neutrality of spine etc).

In general, I wouldn't recommend its use, though. I'd rather have people learn to properly back/front squat.
 
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(Aaron_F @ Aug. 09 2006,00:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(liegelord @ Aug. 09 2006,17:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I disagree with the foot placement (I think the smith machine should be avoided at all costs). The knees should go over/past the toes when squatting. Try getting into the start of a deadlift while keeping your knees in line with your ankles. .</div>
depends on why you are squatting.

But saying you shouldnt do one thing in squat because you cant do it in deadlift is pointless, they are different lifts requiring different technique</div>
It's not pointless because they are not completely different movements, they're very similar.

Maybe I should have written one should try and squat with a BB and not have their knees pass over their toes (as they would do in a Smith machine).
 
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(liegelord @ Aug. 12 2006,20:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not pointless because they are not completely different movements, they're very similar.</div>
ya, if you close your eyes nice nad tight and squeeze, you may confuse the squat with the deadlift.
 
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(bgates1654 @ Aug. 08 2006,00:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The picture he paints with smith machine squating is doom and gloom.  The place I work out right now has no squat rack, just a smith machine.  Is anyone convinced that squating with a smith machine will destroy you?  I am currently not deadlifting simply becuase I simplified my workout for cutting.  Should I switch over to the deadlift and just not do squat?

I have so far not experienced any knee pain, but I am not lifting really heavy weights at this point.  My max 2 set 5RM for A2G squats is 160 lbs + bar.</div>
Yes, I am convinced that Squatting on a Smith machine will destroy an otherwise healthy persons ability to reap the full healthy benefits of the Squat. You will lose almost all the benefit of training your core muscles, the drive portion of the movement is subverted, almost all of the benefits for the upper body are destroyed, the squat motion itself is fixed into a thouroughly unnatural position,
you will never truely get solid strong squats training with the smith machine,
do the deads and figure out another solution for squating before you destroy your back.
 
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(drpierredebs @ Aug. 12 2006,16:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(bgates1654 @ Aug. 08 2006,00:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The picture he paints with smith machine squating is doom and gloom. The place I work out right now has no squat rack, just a smith machine. Is anyone convinced that squating with a smith machine will destroy you? I am currently not deadlifting simply becuase I simplified my workout for cutting. Should I switch over to the deadlift and just not do squat?

I have so far not experienced any knee pain, but I am not lifting really heavy weights at this point. My max 2 set 5RM for A2G squats is 160 lbs + bar.</div>
Yes, I am convinced that Squatting on a Smith machine will destroy an otherwise healthy persons ability to reap the full healthy benefits of the Squat. You will lose almost all the benefit of training your core muscles, the drive portion of the movement is subverted, almost all of the benefits for the upper body are destroyed, the squat motion itself is fixed into a thouroughly unnatural position,
you will never truely get solid strong squats training with the smith machine,
do the deads and figure out another solution for squating before you destroy your back.</div>
Also, watch out for the boogeyman.

If you put your legs forward to minimize shin movement and maintain a neutral spine, explain to me how you're going to 'destroy your back' in a smith machine.

I think they're largely garbage too, but I think you're taking it too far.
 
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(mikeynov @ Aug. 12 2006,22:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">a neutral spine</div>
What is a neutral spine?

The smith machine limits the proper movement of all the hinges involved and locks the spine in an unnatural position which destroys the back and eventually weakens the back and legs.

It may seem as if I am taking it too far, but the squat is serious business and if you really hurt your back only once, you have a problem for life.
 
If your that paranoid about your back, why are you squatting at all, as ALL Squatting is a risk for your back, not smiths alone.
 
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(Aaron_F @ Aug. 14 2006,01:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If your that paranoid about your back, why are you squatting at all, as ALL Squatting is a risk for your back, not smiths alone.</div>
WTF is going on here? I am not paranoid about hurting my back by doing squats because I do them properly. Go ahead and destroy the benefits of doing squats by doing them improperly and have fun with the smith machine.
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That was a great article Fausto posted, although I don't agree with all the points mentioned about the smith machine, it was educational for me. One thing not mentioned here about smith style machines was something I saw in florida last summer...some of them have a slight tilt to them to alleviate the 'over the shins' problem. The problem they have with those is that a lot of people were standing in them backwards, so they could see themselves in the mirror! That HAS to be bad!

As for my bodysolid freeweight lever machine, the squat movement is exactly like a proper squat, only you are leaning maybe 8 or 10 degrees backwards, keeping tension on the abs. It also has a padded shoulder cradle sort of like a hack squat machine, and I love it, since my spine hates a bar across it. When I overdid it the other day (returning from time off from surgery) all the proper muscles got DOMS the next few days, so I know it's hitting all the right places  save for the synergistic muscles used for balance. The weight does not go up in a straight line like a smith machine, but without the need to balance, and being in a regular motion, I have to add more weight than I can actually squat. (been up to 540 last cycle) My best squat was about 480, which re-injured my bad disc (#4 lumbar) and caused me to buy the machine.
    My point here is that I found a machine that will allow you to &quot;squat&quot; if you have an injury that doesn't alllow you to freeweight it, and they are NOT useless as the article would suggest for the smith machines. Still, there are other problems with the machine I had to fix, as I posted in the home gym equipment forum.
 
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