anti-aromatase only for cutting?

virtualcyber

New Member
I was wondering if anyone tried using anti-aromatase _without_ steroids for cutting. If so, was it effective?
I would be really
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for some feedback.

Or is anti-aromatase only good for ending 'roid cycle?
 
I have used an AA (inhibitor) during a short three week cutting period and would say yes IF you are primarily concerned with/have a prob with estrogenic fat AND you know what the heck you are doing. AA's (particularly arimidex/liquidex and femara and especially aromasin which is a suicide inhibitor) are VERY powerful and I would not recommend a full dose ED unless it is only for a few days... lowering estrogen too much will first cause noticable joint pain and lower IGF-1 levels... they also will lower the HDL:LDL cholesterol ratio...

If you have estrogenic fat you want to get rid of (the fat on your chest/abs/sides that just won't let go even at low bodyfat) then I would heavily research this and consider the use... if you are at a moderate to high overall bf and just want to lose fat than I say there is no need for an AA...

Also, before jumping the gun and using one, there are products such as LipoDerm which are specific A-2 receptor antagonists (a-2s are what allow estrogenic fat to put it simply) which are applied topically and do not have the downsides that the powerful anti-aromatase drugs do... yohimbine is the active ingredient and it is administered transdermally thus avoiding the systemic accumulation, and thus avoiding the lowered IGF-1 and cholesterol problems (estrogen also regulates fluids and sperm transport in the male repoductive/endocrine system.. don't want to mess that up).

Hope this helps. PM if you want some more info on anything I talked about.. I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but I have read a fair amount on this.
 
Hi,

Thanks for your reply and your offer to answer more questions. Since I am at the stage of collecting general information (as opposed to finding out the nitty gritty of doing a cycle), I decided to post here, rather than PMing you. Also, it might help others as well.

I was thinking about using 6-OXO. (a new product by Ergopharm, a natural supplement
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Yes, the questions:

(1) is the increase in testosterone evident as well (preservation of muscle) during the cutting cycle?

(2) is the cutting effect of AA _very_ evident under caloric deficit diet?

(3) how quickly does fat come back after discontinued use, provided you are still careful with diet? In other words, do the estrogenic fat come back as only as quickly as "regular" fat, or much faster?

Thanks in advance.
 
Glad i could help.
6-oxo is an OTC suicide aromatase inhibitor (similiar to the perscription drug aromasin) ... it permanetly binds to the aromatase enzyme and does not have a half-life (as opposed to arimidex which binds to aromatase but not permanetly). I asked a few questions in regards to how the body responds to this over at the avant forums (I STRONGLY suggest you join their forums as Par and Dante and others are much more educated in this area and many others.) do a search with my username and "6-oxo" and you should find the thread i'm talking about... lots of good info.

As to your other questions, I will take a stab, but once again the avant forums would be a better place to ask (there are also some very knowledgable people on this board and I do not mean for my suggestion to be taken the wrong way... its just that the avant forum already has such topics in discussion and is usually more active in endocrinology/andrology/biochemistry discussion than this forum is.)
(once again, the below is my best guess)

1. For me (and this will be individual and dose dependent of course), the boost in test was evident very quickly (libido, etc..) but I can't say as to whether or not this boost (which is relatively small.. as our natural test production is nothing near the common androgen/PH cycle amounts....) will have a noticable effect on body composition (muscle retension as you said).. I would speculate that it if you are older and the increase in test was substantial then the aid might be minorly noticable.... A better idea would be to use an ECA to help retain muscle (as well as aid fat loss) Here is a wonderful article on this by Bryan = http://www.musclemonthly.com/article....ork.htm .

2. The "cutting effect" will be partially from estrogenic water loss, this will be regardless of a caloric deficit.... when it comes to estrogenic fat loss, a caloric deficit naturally be extremely beneficial, however, after talking to some people on the Avant forum and from a little personal experience, the fat can be mobilized even in at maintenance or hypermaintenance caloric intakes, but at a much lesser extent, and can even be deposited elsewhere on the body (non-estrogenic)... a more believable example of this is with gynecomastia treatment studies in which people were given nolvadex (i know its not a AA, but in a practicle sense, it elimates the effect of circulating estrogen on the breast ER).. depending on which study, a very high percentage of the people had decreased gyno noticably after a few months of use despite any kind of proper diet or planned caloric deficit. (of course, such a treatment has many negatives IMO....). Bottom line, yes it is going to more evident with a caloric deficiet which you should already be in if you are going to cut in the first place.

3. Personally, the fat did not come back any faster than other fat provided I did not get too reckless with my bulking diet... this will vary alot from person to person IMO, so once again, I can't really say with certainty... ask the avant forums :) Another point to consider with rate of fat return is that if your estrogenic fat was occured due to a past estrogen spike (puberty, a period of awful diet or alcohol use) then the results will be more likely to last (provided you are using your head with your diet).. but if you have a current/on-going estrogen problem then they might not be as long lasting (all other variables constant of course).
 
NightOp,

If one was to use nolvadex for this purpose. How much and for how long would be appropriate?
Thanks
 
for what specific purpose... estrogenic fat loss during a cutting period? gyno/chest fat treatment? or for water loss and/or natural test boost? and like I said, I can only say what I would do.. I can tell already that you guys are putting too much trust in my words... I love to help, but there are much more educated people on this and I would hate to misinform someone on something... as endocrinology is ridiculously complex (like soo many things).

here are some good threads which might be of interest =

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo....omatase

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo....omatase

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo....omatase

(*note* the above links appear to all be the same, but they are not... each one goes to a different thread..)
 
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