Fruits & Vegetables

[BIGBANGSingh]

If I'm already taking a complete multi-vitamin/multi-mineral supplement, and eating sufficient complex carbs, is it NECESSARY to consume fruits and/or vegetables? I understand that it's always better to eat whole foods instead of supplements (actually I don't know precisely why), but I'm trying to simplify my diet.

 

[Aaron_F]

Yes they are required

1) While there is a good correlation between the vitamins and minerals in vege/fruit and good health, there is no real perfect evidence that it is in fact just the vit/min that are doign the good stuff, tehre is a huge potential for other unkown compounds to do it all

2) furthering on from the first point, there is a rather lack of research showing that taking a multi will actually do anything near as good as taking in more f/v

3) fibre

4) food volume

5) taste good

6) phytonutrients

7) phytonutrients

8) phytonutrients

 

[Chupacabra]

9) your mother loves you and wants you to eat your vegetables.

 

[micmic]

Actually I would say that vegetables (not starchy ones) are what's really necessary. Broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, cabbage, spinach, dandelion, amaranth leaves, parsley, zucchini, tomato, celery, artichoke, onion, garlic, cucumber, eggplant, leek, dill, okra, pepper... that kind of stuff.

When you have the above, you can do without fruits. Which is an advantage when you are on a diet since fruits are so delicious that calories can accumulate too fast

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (micmic @ Oct. 31 2003,8:43)]When you have the above, you can do without fruits. Which is an advantage when you are on a diet since fruits are so delicious that calories can accumulate too fast

Starchy vegetables have their place as well

and fruits are not always high CHO content, take some berries (excellent source of phytonutrients and A/O), apples, Tomatoes (they are a fruit )etc. When eaten in moderation they dont add up to a lot of calories. ANd you can use certain fruits pre/post workout for CHO sources too.

They are all great for you

 

[micmic]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Oct. 31 2003,11:16)]When eaten in moderation they dont add up to a lot of calories.

Yep, that's exactly my problem: moderation.

I have eaten 1.5kg apples in one day, enough to throw me over to the hypercaloric brink. With 1.5kg boiled broccoli I can get away

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (micmic @ Oct. 31 2003,10:29)]Yep, that's exactly my problem: moderation.
I have eaten 1.5kg apples in one day, enough to throw me over to the hypercaloric brink. With 1.5kg boiled broccoli I can get away

that'll teach you

everything is better in moderation

 

[thedrivethruguy]

The main reason i use veggies is number 4 on aarons list. They fill me up! I'm cutting so i need stuff to fill me up. A very general rule that i TRY to follow is if i have some protein in the form of meat, always try to have a bunch of veggies with it. For example 4 cups of chopped of romaine has, what, like 20 cal in it? which i then pile chicken and dressing on. Stuffs me full for at least i couple hours

 

[restless]

Quote[/b] (micmic @ Oct. 31 2003,11:29)]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Oct. 31 2003,11:16)]When eaten in moderation they dont add up to a lot of calories.

Yep, that's exactly my problem: moderation.
I have eaten 1.5kg apples in one day, enough to throw me over to the hypercaloric brink. With 1.5kg boiled broccoli I can get away

Ah! I've eaten 3 Kg of bananas in one weekend on several ocasions.

 

[micmic]

You're good, but not good enough

When it comes to overeating, I can beat anyone with one hand (or one jaw, for that matter). 10000 kcals per day for 3 consecutive days while eating 'clean' is not something difficult for me. Now, if I allow myself the pleasures of chocolate and other snacks, the numbers become frightening

 

[thedrivethruguy]

uhhh wow man, care to explain? i cannot even fathom eating 10000 kcal, and i'm not a skinny guy either!

 

[Aaron_F]

its a simple thing, just keep pushing food in even if you feel bad

I seem to have no real negative feedback in terms of satiety, well until I make myself sick...

 

[micmic]

Yeah, not much to explain... I wonder myself how is it possible to eat like this

Obviously, bulimia is involved. But it is not easy to distinguish between bulimic and hunger signals. When I eat a lot of food I may feel a temporary discomfort from a very full stomach but it's nothing serious and it always goes away within 15 minutes, so I can continue eating.

For example, I can munch hazelnuts all day long - that is, between meals. During the span of a day, this could be 500gr, >3000 kcals from hazelnuts alone.

The good news is that during the last 3 months I've been steadily below 10% bf and it's not so hard to stay below 10% once you get there. But I'm stuck at 8% and haven't found yet the will-power to fight bulimia so that I can get to 7%. But I keep trying

 

[stevie]

would you class stuffing yourself to finish ALL the pizza you ordered bulimia? (its my girlfriends fault. she insists on ordering her own, but never finishes her dam pizza) I mean stuffing yourself till you are sweating and shivering from the need to stop eating....you know when you feel like you will puke from just chewing, never mind swallowing the food. Im just curious, cause i do this 'fairly' regularly (now that im officially bulking ) The thing is, i feel obliged to go that far. Joey in a freinds episode phrased it perfectly: If i cant finish the thanksgiving turkey, then whats next? Pretty soon I wont be able to finish anything else in my life.

 

[micmic]

Aaaah, bulimia... what can I say about it. I have recorded a few thoughts in my dieting diary and I have a lot of insults to sling at the face of fellow bulimics and their allegedly 'supportive' web sites.

But it's not time for it yet...

Well, I wouldn't call bulimia finishing my pizza... What I'd call bulimia is finishing my pizza, everyone else's leftovers, ordering a couple more, and then driving at 1 pm in order to find some ice cream

For me, a bulimic crisis seems to shut off my brain to the point I can't think anything else but food. Officially it is 'compulsive overeating', as bulimia involves purgative behavior, which fortunately I don't exhibit. The presence of food is rather irrelevant - lots of delicious plates in front of me can't trigger an episode and in fact I am usually commendably abstemious. But when it happens, I can do almost anything to find food (it's a rather improper example, but have you seen 'the pianist' ?)

Low bf level (for me < 9%) seems to be critical in triggering bulimic crises. Getting more sunshine seems to help. Other than that, I have found no relation between bulimia and prolonged dieting, mood, macronutrient ratios, exercise, etc. Nor are there any useful supplements.

 

[_aj]

Do you mean Bulemia, or Binge eating Disorder. I thought that bulimics ate alot and then threw up from the guilt. Well that is besides the point, I can totally relate to this behavior as I sometimes(more often than I wish) suffer from this illness.

It is not fun, I am slowing trying to conquer it. I heard that 5 HTP helps and I am actually tring that now. Seems to be doing okay. I haven't had an "episode" yet, but its been only 2 days.

 

[micmic]

Terminology varies and in many places the definitions are used interchangeably or are completely mixed up, but in general:

Bulimia: overeating with purgative behavior (can be vomiting, laxatives, over-exercising etc)
Compulsive overeating: overeating without purgative behavior
Binge eating: like the above but during short, distinct periods (< 2 hours)

And then there are Night Eating Syndrome, mixed cases, unclassified cases, etc.

 

[_aj]

Acutally I thought that this was a problem that happen mainly in females. Eating Disorders in General, but there are alot of Guys that experience this many of whom do not admit it or don't even think that it is a problem. We as bodybuilders probably all suffer from some kind of eating disorder being obsessed with what we eat and timing meals. I know that it is optimal but in all reality does it all make that mach of a difference in the whole scope of the picture.

I am on my way to recovery and I am trying not to think about food as much as I used to, I am glad that I can still somewhat control it for the most part but I have to take it one day at a time. I have ruined my goals many times on these episodes. But the important thing is that I am willing to admit that I have a problem and am tryiny to fix it.

 

[micmic]

There are many males with such disorders, although the ones related to undereating (eg anorexia) are by and large the problem of females. Bodybuilders would most probably suffer from some variation of orthorexia nervosa, though personally I don't consider this particular disorder something to fret about.

I know recovery is hard. Like when you quit smoking, you have to constantly maintain a level of alert. Many 'experts' are especially fond of saying that "eating disorders are psychological diseases, so we have to improve our mood in order to control them". So, everyone keeps saying "it's psychological, what can I do ?" Those people have never thought to define the expression "psychological disease". As if psychological disorders don't have underlying biochemical causes.... As if unhappy persons are the only ones facing such disorders... Hell, I've never been happier in my life and yet my compulsive overeating has never been worse! Could it be because I've been dieting for a long time and my bodyfat level is too low ? Nooooo! According to these 'experts' it is because I feel I don't have enough control in my life and I am emotionally unstable! Likewise, such 'experts' seem to agree that when people relapse and break their diet or have a crisis, they shouldn't feel guilty afterwards because feelings of guilt will mess their emotional world and this will lead to a vicious circle of more eating etc. You know, all the usual new age mumbo-jumbo about positive thinking, fighting negative feelings etc. It seems that noone has ever thought that perhaps sometimes guilt is a completely healthy, productive and desirable feeling. If you smash someone's head with a crowbar, perhaps you should feel guilty afterwards. If you have been unduly harsh and insensitive with someone you care about, perhaps guilt is in order. Likewise, if you spoil 2 weeks of dieting in a couple of hours, then you should probably feel some guilt. Not like committing suicide, but enough so that you don't continue to eat uncontrollably for the rest of your life.

So, my advice would be to adopt a relaxed attitude about it, to accept the guilt that comes with episodes, and realize that no matter how many crises you have you will always be fighting it because resigning is just not an option. You will find out that you can actually control it, sooner or later.

 

[Kiharan]

Hmm. Looks like we might need to rename this thread. Maybe we've said all that's going to be said about fruits and vegetables.

"Overeating" and bulimia are fascinating topics certainly worthy of discussion.

I tried the "Warrior Diet" that allowed me to eat most of my 2000-odd calories in one sitting. (145-pound ecto) And I still had to monitor calories and stop myself to keep from getting too fat.

For me, the "killer" is the restaurant buffet line...with the extra variety, the food still tastes good after I've stuffed several pounds into myself. I can eat 2 or 3 times as much as friends who outweigh me by 50 pounds or more. It makes it that much more enjoyable to see the amazement on their faces...