How much Protein are you getting

  • Thread starter imported_drpierredebs
  • Start date
I

imported_drpierredebs

Guest
This article got me thinking. I take in about 1- 1.5 g per kg body weight per day.

Nutrition. 2004 Jul-Aug;20(7-8):689-95
Protein requirements and supplementation in strength sports.

Phillips SM.
Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

Daily requirements for protein are set by the amount of amino acids that is irreversibly lost in a given day. Different agencies have set requirement levels for daily protein intakes for the general population; however, the question of whether strength-trained athletes require more protein than the general population is one that is difficult to answer. At a cellular level, an increased requirement for protein in strength-trained athletes might arise due to the extra protein required to support muscle protein accretion through elevated protein synthesis. Alternatively, an increased requirement for protein may come about in this group of athletes due to increased catabolic loss of amino acids associated with strength-training activities. A review of studies that have examined the protein requirements of strength-trained athletes, using nitrogen balance methodology, has shown a modest increase in requirements in this group. At the same time, several studies have shown that strength training, consistent with the anabolic stimulus for protein synthesis it provides, actually increases the efficiency of use of protein, which reduces dietary protein requirements. Various studies have shown that strength-trained athletes habitually consume protein intakes higher than required. A positive energy balance is required for anabolism, so a requirement for "extra" protein over and above normal values also appears not to be a critical issue for competitive athletes because most would have to be in positive energy balance to compete effectively. At present there is no evidence to suggest that supplements are required for optimal muscle growth or strength gain. Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines, or 12% to 15% of energy from protein.
 
I've read several times of studies, I think of nitrogen balance, concluding that 1.7 gm / kg was needed. It has been a while, but I'm thinking that was the figure for maintaining a positive nitrogen balance. That equates to ~.77gm / lb. and a lot of experienced lifters and trainers seem to like 1gm / lb. I've figured better a bit of excess than a deficiency and target the 1gm / lb. So, about 2.2 gm / kg.

Someone else will probably come along and cite specific studies. I don't have them recorded.
 
2.2g/kg, think that's really necessary, since drpierredebs only eats 1-1.5g and judging from his avatar and previous posts, he is pretty damn huge.

I think 1.5 would be enough for most ppl, remember its based on LBM not total bodyweight, and the more your LBM, the more protein you have to eat, but the ratio stays the same.

Great if we can see some studies though.
 
Here in the states -- including in Brian's "Eating for Size" article - a typical rule of thumb for natural lifters is 1 gm/lb of body weight . That is already over 2 gm/kg, so I imagine that most in the U.S. will be at the upper limit of the poll. Regardless of whether this is overkill, a simple guideline like that is more likely to be followed.
 
<div>
(Lifting N Tx @ Nov. 22 2006,02:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've read several times of studies, I think of nitrogen balance, concluding that 1.7 gm / kg was needed.  It has been a while, but I'm thinking that was the figure for maintaining a positive nitrogen balance.  That equates to ~.77gm / lb. and a lot of experienced lifters and trainers seem to like 1gm / lb.  I've figured better a bit of excess than a deficiency and target the 1gm / lb.  So, about 2.2 gm / kg.

Someone else will probably come along and cite specific studies. I don't have them recorded.</div>
one of the points of the article is that nitrogen balance is not a good way to determine Protein requirements. There is a big difference in terms of absolute protein requirements between what is needed, what is optimal and what is superfluous for muscle growth. There is also a difference in the above when one compares steroid usage to natural methods to achieve an increase in LBM.

One of the conclusions is also that protein supplementation is borderline useless and the majority of meat-milk and egg eating persons  get more than enough proteins through the normal course of the day. The data is there to support this and the fact that isolated protein intake does little more than increase Nitrogen levels which does not neccessarily reflect protein synthesis.

BTW- I would not consider myself huge, but strong.
 
<div>
(Peak_Power @ Nov. 22 2006,02:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">the more protein you have to eat, but the ratio stays the same.

Great if we can see some studies though.</div>
According to published data, which is referenced in the above mentioned article, it is not true that more protein intake is required as a result of having more muscle.
As you gain muscle and through resistance exercise, the body actually becomes more efficient at utilizing amino acids to build new muscle and balance this with muscle turnover.
 
I agree with herr doctor, most bbuilders fail to consume enough calories but get enough protein, Thats why iv been eating mars bars. Girls see me doing this and think im trying to get fat. Silly girls
biggrin.gif
 
<div>
(drpierredebs @ Nov. 22 2006,02:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">one of the points of the article is that nitrogen balance is not a good way to determine Protein requirements. There is a big difference in terms of absolute protein requirements between what is needed, what is optimal and what is superfluous for muscle growth. There is also a difference in the above when one compares steroid usage to natural methods to achieve an increase in LBM.</div>
Interesting stuff. I actually reduced my protein intake some when I read about 1.7gm/kg. I'll probably wait for more studies or do some more research before I drop it any further, but this reopens my thinking about protein.

I've always figured that the guys taking in 300-400gm per day were either wasting their time and money or could metabolize much more than normal due to steroids.
 
hm.. I eat about 4.25g/kg, but the main reason for that is &quot;calories in&quot; control.
Me prefers geting more calories from protein rather than fat or carbs, wonder if it has any negative effects on muscle catabolism since the body might readjust to utilizing muscle protein for energy??... does anybody have any info on protein abuse?
biggrin.gif


Since i'm on a bulk cycle. what i do is I try to get 50% of calories from protein and 50% from carbs (fats kinda come in naturaly with meat), it's pretty easy to keep track of calories this way since i know how many cals i need daily.

so.. more info about negative effects of protein overuse would be really helpfull!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines, or 12% to 15% of energy from protein.</div>

Couldn't resist trying this out with realistic numbers. Sorry, this may be a bit long...

Take a 200 pound man (~91kg), assume 3000 calories maintenance, add 500 for a bulk:

3500 calories x .15 = 525 calories from protein (high end)
525 calories / 4 calories per gram = 131.25 gms protein / day

3500 calories x .12 = 420 calories from protein (low end)
420 calories / 4 calories per gram = 105 gms protein / day

This is still higher than the typical US Government's RDA for men, which I've read is .8gm/kg, or about 73gm for a 200 pound man.

Now for a little back of the envelope calculation...

Typical bulk rule of thumb = gain 1lb/week. Assume that weight gain is 50% muscle and 50% fat. I'm assuming that 1gm muscle gained requires at least 1gm extra dietary protein, and that ingested protein is 100% digested, has the right amino acid composition, and 100% becomes available for conversion to new muscle. Ignored is that weight training may increase protein turnover and dietary requirements due to damage to existing muscle fibers during training.

So we have a (minimum) requirement for an extra 227 gms (.5 lbs x 1kg / 2.2. lbs x 1000 g / kg) protein per week for conversion to new muscle, or ~32 grams per day. Add to that whatever is required for replacement of muscle catabolized due to the weight training.

Just using the 73 gm USRDA, adding the minimum 32 gms from my calculation above, I get 105gms, which is right at the low end using the 12%-15% of energy from protein cited. Seems like the 12-15% already has some increase built in vs. the official US govt. recommendations.

Seems plausible if the increased catabolism from exercise is more than offset by the greater efficiency from the anabolic stimulus of training cited by the study. The magnitude of catabolism and the offsetting increased efficiency would seem to be the key.

Anyone think my assumptions and calculations are way off, or could 105-130 grams be enough?
 
Wow that was a great method of logical deduction, you would be great at solving mathmatical problems.

So we take what is required for maint, eg. 73gs for a 200lb man, and add what's needed for growth, eg. 32g, and we get the amount recommened by the &quot;12% of calories rule&quot;, 105. Add to that the catabolic demands of exercise and it would work out to be around 136g, so 15% of cals is about spot on. Also 1.5g*91kg=136.5, which is also spot on.

Well done LNT!
 
<div>
(edgeArchitect @ Nov. 22 2006,13:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">hm.. I eat about 4.25g/kg, but the main reason for that is &quot;calories in&quot; control.
Me prefers geting more calories from protein rather than fat or carbs, wonder if it has any negative effects on muscle catabolism since the body might readjust to utilizing muscle protein for energy??... does anybody have any info on protein abuse?  
biggrin.gif


Since i'm on a bulk cycle. what i do is I try to get 50% of calories from protein and 50% from carbs (fats kinda come in naturaly with meat), it's pretty easy to keep track of calories this way since i know how many cals i need daily.

so.. more info about negative effects of protein overuse would be really helpfull!</div>
try and get the article, if you can´t I will email it to you.
 
<div>
(Lifting N Tx @ Nov. 22 2006,13:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines, or 12% to 15% of energy from protein.</div>

snipped

Anyone think my assumptions and calculations are way off, or could 105-130 grams be enough?</div>
I think you calcultaions are reasonable, but I don´t think the assumptions about the quantity of protein synthesis and the resulting increase in LBM is anywhere near reality.

The article answers your question better than I could so I refer back to it.

If someone can post up on the HST borad,m it would be a great sticky kinda thing.
 
<div>
(drpierredebs @ Nov. 22 2006,21:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">one of the points of the article is that nitrogen balance is not a good way to determine Protein requirements.</div>
its an extremely rough estimate for protein requirements, but not good.
 
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Dec. 14 2006,09:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So do we all agree 1 gram is enough.

I dont know how much a damn kg is???</div>
1 kg = 2.2 lb
 
One gram is all i take. There is no research done on this but...for the average builder, people that are taking 2x probably aren't eating a lot of carbs and the proteins are compensating. But i use 1g per lb so that is 2.2g per 1kg. I also prefer to use the LBM weight instead of TBW. I am not obsessed with calorie counting....yet  
biggrin.gif
. I eat bout 2.0 whole chicken breasts, 3 protein shakes, 3 eggs, 2 servings of real peanut butter, and almonds...although i have heard you only digest about half of nut protein.

Basically i get close enough...you g2 understand though, if you are eating enough carbs you do not have to go crazy with protein so 1x is great for most. I have actually read that too much protein can cause calcium deficiency amongst other things but that is a controversial..*would appreciate it if somebody could clarify*

Lol, I voted 1g, not noticing it says per Kilogram.
 
When cutting, 2.2 grams per kilogram

When bulking, 4.4 grams per kilogram

Most bbers who have had the size I wanted and posted their diets or protein intake ate at least that or more. Same way with plifters who have acquired the kind of strength I want. Those are my only reasons.

It worked
 
I don't recall EVER seeing any well-built, large BB'er who would argue that some supplementation in the protein department wasn't necessary. Never met one who built his fort with milk and meat alone.
1g/lb. isn't very hard to do, but I tried that 2g/lb. for a while, and it almost felt like being on Atkins!
 
Back
Top