My TF template

Hi Gentleman,

I want to thank again Totentanz for his patience and reply on my thread.

I thought about all inputs and thoughts-also about tension and fatigue.
I want to set up a "TF" template which follows 2 cycles. One which is a bit more geared to fatigue and the other to strength. This was also a good idea of CDB.
This set up has also the sense to prevent burning out when the weight gets heavy.
I cannot handle 2 heavy sessions the week. Thats why I was pleased with the HLM template.
So the "fatigue day" also functions as a light day.

I will work out 2xthe week. Sets across.

Heavy/Tension Day: 3x5 reps full rest (approx 85%-87.5% 1rpm)
Light/Fatigue-Volume Day 3x10 reps 2 min rest (approx 65% 1rpm)


Exercises for both days:
Squat (tension day)/Romanian Deadlift (fatigue day)
Bench
Row
Press
Pulldown
Crunch


Procedure:

After SD (I currently SD since 2 weeks-teeth surgery) I will start with 75% of my 3x5 max and 75% of my 3x10 max.
This will bring my starting weights to 63%1rpm on heavy day and 50% 1rpm on fatigue day.
It seems bit low, but remember the starting weights in the vanilla HST template are quite low too.
Also take the 2min rest periods and volume in consideration on the cummulative fatigue day which lessens the load too but is on purpose to generate a bit fatigue and volume.
On both days I increase the weight by 5%, so that I hit old PRs in week 6 and build from there.
For me Prs are an important motivater. When stalling I would SD and ramp up again.

Also I thought of borrowing sth. from Wendler: Repping out on the last set form the beginning but WITHIN REASON of course. I will not grind myself out but already take advantage of the ramp up.

Feedback are welcome, I hope I have included the HST principles in a acceptable way.

Thank you
TG
 
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This looks well planned and I hope its successful. Let me just add a few ideas on lift selection:

1. Think about a chest supported row or DB row to give your spinal erectors a break after the squats and RDLs.

2. Think about weighted pullups over pulldowns.

3. I like ab rollers or hanging leg raises (with a DB between the feet if necessary) for abs. How will you add resistance to crunches? For the mother of all ab killers, Janda situps?

On both days I increase the weight by 5%, so that I hit old PRs in week 6 and build from there.

The rate of progession is dictated to the lifter, not the other way around. Don't get discouraged if its slower than 5%.

Good luck,

-Q
 
Thank you Q for your input i reply in the quote:

This looks well planned and I hope its successful. Let me just add a few ideas on lift selection:

1. Think about a chest supported row or DB row to give your spinal erectors a break after the squats and RDLs.
Good point. I thought of cable row. The chest supported bothers my chest and breath and I hate dumbbel rows.
Or I wll ad the RDL at the end of the workout

2. Think about weighted pullups over pulldowns.
The problem is, to periodize weighted pull ups. I can do 5. This is too less for my plan outlined above. Via pulldowns I can adjust the weight as wished.

3. I like ab rollers or hanging leg raises (with a DB between the feet if necessary) for abs. How will you add resistance to crunches? For the mother of all ab killers, Janda situps?

'Well I thought this version is nice.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJs_tQdA8I
The trick with extending the arms is a good one to eliminate the hips.


The rate of progession is dictated to the lifter, not the other way around. Don't get discouraged if its slower than 5%.

I will add 5% till I get to my old Prs. Then I will do it slower and perhaps ad rep progression too on the last set.Like:
Heavy day: 5/5/3-6
Light day: 10/10/8-12


Good luck,

-Q
 
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I think the cable row is a solid choice. Like you, I have a hard time with the chest supported row - most especially when the loads get heavy. Cable row works great as long as you use good form.
 
I think the cable row is a solid choice. Like you, I have a hard time with the chest supported row - most especially when the loads get heavy. Cable row works great as long as you use good form.

Thank you Totentanz. Do you think I can give the template a go?

If my threshold moves up over the cycles, the next step would be to uppen the days to 5x3 and 5x6. But I hope this will not happen soon;)
I want only to change the template if it doesn´t work anymore and my minimum threshold moves up and I think 3x5 and 3x10 seems a good start.
The only point I am still unsure is the repping out on the last set what we also discussed in the other thread. If the weights are that light it will possible be 30 or more reps on the last set and I don´t want accumulated metabolic fatigue at the beginning of the cycle which propbably hinder progress in the long run.
 
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I wouldn't rep out too much on the light days as you are using these days as a sort of recovery from the heavier days. Maybe if you rotated what exercises you did rep out on during the light day so you are only doing it with one each time? Might work. Or instead of doing that, you could use a myoreps setup on the light days. I prefer myoreps for light weights over traditional sets/reps as you get more quality work in with a lighter weight.

I think you should get started on this as soon as possible. Waiting to see the results you get.
 
Totentanz brought up a good point. The light days are either light days, or they are fatigue days. To conceive of them as both light and fatigue may not work, and it may not make sense with what we know about training. The light day, as in using intra-microcycle variations in volume-load, is perhaps a kind of active recovery. And it is appropriate with an intermediate trainee. A fatigue day suggests these days have a goal other than active recovery, namely of course, fatigue. And creating metabolic fatigue is not recovery.

That being said, if you are going for PRs then this is a strength program and the light days should be "light days" -- no repping out. If this is a hypertrophy program than rep out but do not aim for PRs. Furthermore, I would use rest-pause on the "tension days." Tension days sound like using tension to signal hypertrophy and rest-pause does a better job, imho, than doing 3 x 5's. Use the weight of a 3 x 5 but shoot for 10 reps with either constant rest times between reps or gradually increasing the rest, which is what the PITT-Force program out of Germany does. Fatigue days sounds like using fatigue to signal hypertrophy in which case rep out.

-Q
 
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I wouldn't rep out too much on the light days as you are using these days as a sort of recovery from the heavier days. Maybe if you rotated what exercises you did rep out on during the light day so you are only doing it with one each time? Might work. Or instead of doing that, you could use a myoreps setup on the light days. I prefer myoreps for light weights over traditional sets/reps as you get more quality work in with a lighter weight.

I think you should get started on this as soon as possible. Waiting to see the results you get.

Thank you for your answer.I am curious too.
I want to start this week. Perhaps I will start a log, or I will post my results after the cycle.
I will run this cycle "conventional". Over time I will include myo reps or max stim when neccessary.

Well the "repping out" or better "rep until you tense up" was related to the submax. weeks on both days.

The reason was to make the submax weeks more effective.
 
Totentanz brought up a good point. The light days are either light days, or they are fatigue days. To conceive of them as both light and fatigue may not work, and it may not make sense with what we know about training. The light day, as in using intra-microcycle variations in volume-load, is perhaps a kind of active recovery. And it is appropriate with an intermediate trainee. A fatigue day suggests these days have a goal other than active recovery, namely of course, fatigue. And creating metabolic fatigue is not recovery.

That being said, if you are going for PRs then this is a strength program and the light days should be "light days" -- no repping out. If this is a hypertrophy program than rep out but do not aim for PRs. Furthermore, I would use rest-pause on the "tension days." Tension days sound like using tension to signal hypertrophy and rest-pause does a better job, imho, than doing 3 x 5's. Use the weight of a 3 x 5 but shoot for 10 reps with either constant rest times between reps or gradually increasing the rest, which is what the PITT-Force program out of Germany does. Fatigue days sounds like using fatigue to signal hypertrophy in which case rep out.

-Q

Q, in bold your brought up topic and my answer.

PRs´ and Strength/hypertrophy
I don´t understand why you link Prs only with strength gains. Also in HST you will gain strength, but they are blurred by the ever increasing weight. This is the point I have an issue with regarding HST. I would not favour, to increase the weight if i am not "ready for it".
Also ( i have already written it) why increase the %of RPM you train with, if you have found a sweet spot regarding your gains?
A person might get good gains still out of the load generated by the 15´s. Why should he or she increase the load even further? SD/Deload and repeat.
IF the threshold goes up over time, then the person can move on to the 10´s and cycle this range.

I never got that why its not done this way.

Light/fatigue days.
Well it depends on the definition. I see it complemenatory. The fatigue days generate metabolic fatigue but give a deload from the heavy days regarding tension. The heavy days generate tension but also serve as a deload from the fatigue days.
There must be a reason I cannot progress with 3x5 two times the week but with 3x5 and 3x10 the same week.
Just reducing the weight on the second day would work too-but via the rep increase i can deload from the heavy weight AND get a metabolic effect too.


Rest Pause

Are you german? I know the PITT Force programm, but isn´t it more related to Dan Moore´s Max Stim?
When training over 85%of 1rpm all fibers get recruited. Why do you think then Rest Pause and 10 reps instead of 15 would be more adequate in this case? Or do yo mean 3x10 with my 3x5RPM?
 
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I don´t understand why you link Prs only with strength gains.

Probably because I am strength training right now. :D

Also ( i have already written it) why increase the %of RPM you train with, if you have found a sweet spot regarding your gains?

Because I think increasing volume-load is the way to increased size gains. In my thinking a sweet spot doesn't exist -- yet.

The fatigue days generate metabolic fatigue but give a deload from the heavy days regarding tension. The heavy days generate tension but also serve as a deload from the fatigue days.

Does deloading really work this way? I am concerned you are in love with the deload to the point where you may have forgotten the science of how deloading works.

Why do you think then Rest Pause and 10 reps instead of 15 would be more adequate in this case?

It was a generic recommendation.

-------


  • Hypertrophy can be signaled many ways. Load and fatigue are both ways to signal hypertrophy. And fatigue may detract from load signaling if done at the same time, according to Dan Moore. If you are attempting to signal hypertrophy from multiple pathways I suggest you do rest-pause on the tension day and rep out on the fatigue day. This is my input if your goal is hypertrophy.


  • If your goal is strength then forget rest-pause and forget repping out. If I handed your TF template to a strength coach he would probably say it looks like an ordinary intermediate strength program.
  • I know HST improves both strength and hypertrophy. It does it through a linear-like periodization. The TF template looks like HST done with daily undulating periodization. Which is just another way of saying intra-microcycle variations.
 
Hey Q, Answers again in bold- i don´t know how to do that with this nice bubbles;)

Probably because I am strength training right now. :D



Because I think increasing volume-load is the way to increased size gains. In my thinking a sweet spot doesn't exist -- yet.

Well what I meant with "sweet spot" is the load/volume stimulus which elicts already PRs.
If a person can progress with 2x15 and get Prs he or she should do it. Deload and repeat.
If 2x15 get too less. He or she should progress to 3x10.

Its similar to the idea rippetoe had in his book with his 5x5 days. If they don´t stimulate progress anymore- go to 8x3.
So in essence: If you need more load-get more load. But not earlier.



Does deloading really work this way? I am concerned you are in love with the deload to the point where you may have forgotten the science of how deloading works.

Well i do what worked for me. If i have 2 heavy days, i cannot pogress well. Only when doing one light day in case of high reps OR reduced load is what works for me.


It was a generic recommendation.

-------


  • Hypertrophy can be signaled many ways. Load and fatigue are both ways to signal hypertrophy. And fatigue may detract from load signaling if done at the same time, according to Dan Moore. If you are attempting to signal hypertrophy from multiple pathways I suggest you do rest-pause on the tension day and rep out on the fatigue day. This is my input if your goal is hypertrophy.

i will take this techniques into consideration in further cycles. Thanks




  • If your goal is strength then forget rest-pause and forget repping out. If I handed your TF template to a strength coach he would probably say it looks like an ordinary intermediate strength program.
Well thats in essence what it should be-but whith added hypertrophic benefit of the high rep days.


  • I know HST improves both strength and hypertrophy. It does it through a linear-like periodization. The TF template looks like HST done with daily undulating periodization. Which is just another way of saying intra-microcycle variation.
Correct, i love this undulating stuff
 
Well what I meant with "sweet spot" is the load/volume stimulus which elicts already PRs.
If a person can progress with 2x15 and get Prs he or she should do it. Deload and repeat.

Ah ha! I understand now.

So in essence: If you need more load-get more load. But not earlier.

Yes yes. Now I agree.

-Q
 
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