ok lets row!

L

lcars

New Member
ive was reading the strength standards post and was to understand that a few of are rowing with 250lbs+,so i went to the gym yesterday and did 220lbs just to see(ive not gone that heavy b4 on bb)as i usually do db rows or tbar,and ok i did it,but i just couldnt get the angle right without it feeling heavy on my lower back.i put a belt on that improved things but still felt pressure there.

what do you guys do? 45% 90% or what.appreciate any feedback.
 
Those posts make me feel inadequate!! My 5rm for BOR right now is 118 lbs. I can get three sets of five before form goes to heck. I suppose I could get one set of five at 120 or maybe a little more. I can't imagine rowing in the 200 plus range.
 
I've been doing mine Pendlay style.

Done that way, I've managed 175x5 with good form, as compared to 245x5 on bench press. Better than I would have thought, since in the past I trained bench a lot more than rows. Still a ways to go to get to reps with over 500, as the post that I linked above says Ed Coan has done. Of course, he's a bit stronger than the average guy.
tounge.gif


I don't have too much trouble keeping the lower back parallel, learning to arch the upper back a bit as described is somewhat harder.
 
Due to back probs, I don't do Pendlay. I row sitting straight up, pulling from level with the chest to the sternum, which, while not incorporating the lats much, does hit the upper back totally. Pendlay makes my mid and lower back hurt.

What is 130x15 lbs on my machine at home is equal to 220 at the gym. Some guys row from leaning WAY forward to fairly well back. For that, I'd just do SLDL's!
 
<div>
(lcars @ Oct. 20 2006,13:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ive was reading the strength standards post and was to understand that a few of are rowing with 250lbs+,so i went to the gym yesterday and did 220lbs just to see(ive not gone that heavy b4 on bb)as i usually do db rows or tbar,and ok i did it,but i just couldnt get the angle right without it feeling heavy on my lower back.i put a belt on that improved things but still felt pressure there.

what do you guys do? 45% 90% or what.appreciate any feedback.</div>
Don't worry too much about it Icars. I have same exact situation as you, I usually do dumbell rows and I can do quite a bit (90+lb.s each db) of weight and hit my back in all the right places. I can't do the same loads with barbell at 90 degrees, due to inflexibility, hurts my lower back...(extremely long torso). I feel the dumbells rows are one of the best exercises for back for me, while barbell rows I can't get the same muscle strain. In our situation, the lower back/inflexibility may be the weakest link, so the lats and traps, etc. don't get worked hard enough.
 
I watched myself row in the mirror tonight. I'm bending some at the knees with my calves still almost vertical, in a way that is similar to &quot;sitting back&quot; at the start of a squat. It's easier for me to get my lower back parallel and keep it that way doing it like that.

It's not a stiff leg deadlift, you just have to find a position where you can keep the lower back flat and stable, while the mid-upper back and lats do the work. Maybe that'll help someone.
 
I do fairly strict Pendlay rows, without wrist wraps or belt, 250 3x5.

lcars, I'm surprised to read you felt the pendlay rows were heavy on your lower back. We deadlift about the same, 500, and I've never had any concerns with my lower back. I always attributed that to the strength in the deadlift.
 
I guess someone needs to ascertain for me here just what it is we're supposed to be working in the rows. I'm not being a smartass, I've just never really seen it outlined. I've always thought that rows were a poor way to exersize lats, so I use them for upper back. I do see the benefit for lower back, although I don't do them that way.
 
<div>
(liegelord @ Oct. 21 2006,00:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I do fairly strict Pendlay rows, without wrist wraps or belt, 250 3x5.

lcars, I'm surprised to read you felt the pendlay rows were heavy on your lower back.  We deadlift about the same, 500, and I've never had any concerns with my lower back.  I always attributed that to the strength in the deadlift.</div>
i had a look at the pendlay rows and tried them,if im doing them right,i had no back issues,the only thing i can think is i have a very long torso and short legs maybe that doesnt help.

http://www.shapefit.com/middle-....ws.html

this is what i did,i now realise that when doing under hand rows i was keeping them close to the body(almost sliding up the knees),but when i was do bb rows i was brining the bar further from the body and up towards my chest,this caused the straining(no pain just uncomfortable).


problem solved thanks for the info guys.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Oct. 21 2006,09:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I guess someone needs to ascertain for me here just what it is we're supposed to be working in the rows. I'm not being a smartass, I've just never really seen it outlined. I've always thought that rows were a poor way to exersize lats, so I use them for upper back. I do see the benefit for lower back, although I don't do them that way.</div>
Yes, lats are one of the main muscles targeted, without your lats it would be very difficult to row your arm back with any load. Other upper back muscles help, rear deltiods, teres, trapezius, rhomboids, etc. The row is one of the best compound exercises, much like deadlift it works a multitude of different muscles in the body.
I do chins/pulldowns to target the outer portion of the lats which extend from the armpit to the outer, lower back. I do rows to hit the upper area of the lats which extend from armpit to the middle of the back. Also both movements hit the trapezius differently. I believe both movements are essential to proper back development. Supinated Chins mainly hit outer lats, lower trapezius, biceps , brachialis, etc. While rows hit upper, middle lats, general trapezius, rear deltoids, and the other small upper back muscles. Good form is both very important and somewhat difficult in rows. I will try that idea Icars of trying to keep the bar closer to my legs when rowing as I have very long torso too.
 
I've been doing bent over rows with my torso up to about 45 degrees for the last 3 years. I don't go any lower to lower risk of low back injury. When I've tried to do them from the floor, no matter how much I arch, I end up getting hurt because of my SI weakness.

I was using 185 before I got hurt. I was back up to 160 today and decided to do something different.

One arm rows with one hand and one knee on the bench with an 80lb dumbell. It felt waaay heavier, my low back had ZERO pressure on it, and tonight my lats are fried.

I'm glad I won't be out in public tomorrow because I'll be suffering from a bad case of ILS. It just looks really goofy to have your arms stuck way out to the side with itty bitty lats.

Hell, at least I have lats now instead of fat rolls...I'll take it.
 
Sometimes my torso is parallel to the floor, and sometimes its up a bit if I'm arching. I don't keep as much strict attention on that exact position, esp since I dont have a full body mirror and refuse to keep one as it only adds to vanity.
laugh.gif


What I do pay strict attention to is where I'm rowing the bar from and to.

I'm bent over the bar at about chest level. As I bring it up, it works its way to my waist level, not my chest. This has been the best and most productive movement for me in rows. My upper back is probably the best attribute I have and its because I've done bent over rows and bent over rows only as a back exercise.

I know I should incorporate chin ups for the width, which I really need, but until I find a place to fit an iron bar I can safely pull up on its bent over rows, and bent over rows only.

Did I mention I do bent over rows only, for my back?
laugh.gif
 
Lower back strength is the biggest hurdle in rowing strength, in my experience. When going 90 degrees, some good hamstring strength helps as well. Lcars, what grip do you use? Underhand or overhand?
 
Don't be afraid to bend your knees to get the right position for bend over rows. It helps with my current lower back/flexibility situation.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Oct. 22 2006,11:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lower back strength is the biggest hurdle in rowing strength, in my experience.  When going 90 degrees, some good hamstring strength helps as well.  Lcars, what grip do you use?  Underhand or overhand?</div>
grip i tend alternate every cycle ie; underhand for 1 cycle then over for the next.i find that the underhand grip hits lower in my lats.

as i stated in an above post i seemed to have sorted it out by keeping the bar closer to my body/thighs and now look forward to adding some more weight to the bar.
biggrin.gif
 
I do 90 degree BOR rows with the grip slightly wider than my shoulders. I always deweight the bar on the ground and go for the explosive movement, accelerating as I get the bar closer to my belly button. I drop the weight to the ground with little or no resistance ( as do with deads). My 5RM was 100 kilos on monday.

Like everything else I do, i do the BORs 5 x 5 . It took me about 5 months to get from a 75kilo 5RM to 100Kilos. I do nothing else for my back other than dead lifts, chins and of course Squats.
 
<div>
(lcars @ Oct. 21 2006,11:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(liegelord @ Oct. 21 2006,00:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I do fairly strict Pendlay rows, without wrist wraps or belt, 250 3x5.

lcars, I'm surprised to read you felt the pendlay rows were heavy on your lower back. We deadlift about the same, 500, and I've never had any concerns with my lower back. I always attributed that to the strength in the deadlift.</div>
i had a look at the pendlay rows and tried them,if im doing them right,i had no back issues,the only thing i can think is i have a very long torso and short legs maybe that doesnt help.

http://www.shapefit.com/middle-....ws.html

this is what i did,i now realise that when doing under hand rows i was keeping them close to the body(almost sliding up the knees),but when i was do bb rows i was brining the bar further from the body and up towards my chest,this caused the straining(no pain just uncomfortable).


problem solved thanks for the info guys.</div>
As far as I know, that video is not a pendlay row.
The Torso must be almost parallel to the ground.
I set up for the row as if I am offensive lineman,
first I squat down and get my belly touching my thighs,
Then I lower my torso to parallel and then I grab the bar.
THis og course involves a slight bending of the knees, but if you got string hams,, and the flexability, the initial squat should more or less lock your hips and legs in place.

With the stance of the guy in this video, heavy weights are gonna hurt your lower back.
 
i use the middle one now,but dont bounce like he was.i used the viking man b4 and found heavy weight was towing on my back.
 
The women has the best form of the three, but she is using light weight and not deweighting
The middle guy needs to lower the weight because he needs to flex his hips to get it up, he will have back problems eventually.
The first guy is about perfect if only held his back a little more like the women.
Massive strength wil be gained if done like the women but deweighting between reps.
Let the BOR rows humble you first, then fight and achieve a massively strong back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top