stimulation of leptin production

V

virtualcyber

New Member
There has been many articles on leptin and its effect on fat loss.

Those who has just lost significant amount of fat "naturally", will find decreased production of leptin in their bodies. Its reduction results in decreases in metabolic rate, which makes fat loss much more difficult. For those who want to gain muscle and lose fat, thus, one would like to keep leptin levels high. So much for background info for those unfamiliar with leptin.

It seems that administration of hexosamine (e.g., glucosamine) is able to stimulate leptin production. This raises the possibility that one can use glucosamine to keep leptin levels constant.

Now, I have few questions.

(1) can oral administration of glucosamine do the job?
(2) if so, how much should one ingest?

Glucosamine, BTW, is sold OTC for those suffering joint problems.

========================================

I have looked up hexosamines/glucosamine using PubMed, but I have difficulty understanding those abstracts/papers. Can anyone take a look at them and comment?

It would be nice if someone can provide answers to two questions above.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (virtualcyber @ June 24 2002,6:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There has been many articles on leptin and its effect on fat loss.  

    Those who has just lost significant amount of fat &quot;naturally&quot;, will find decreased production of leptin in their bodies.  Its reduction results in decreases in metabolic rate, which makes fat loss much more difficult.  For those who want to gain muscle and lose fat, thus, one would like to keep leptin levels high.  So much for background info for those unfamiliar with leptin.  

    It seems that administration of hexosamine (e.g., glucosamine) is able to stimulate leptin production.  This raises the possibility that one can use glucosamine to keep leptin levels constant.

    Now, I have few questions.  

    (1) can oral administration of glucosamine do the job?
    (2) if so, how much should one ingest?

Glucosamine, BTW, is sold OTC for those suffering joint problems.

========================================

    I have looked up hexosamines/glucosamine using PubMed, but I have difficulty understanding those abstracts/papers.  Can anyone take a look at them and comment?

    It would be nice if someone can provide answers to two questions above.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think if you do a search here and at the old Thinkmuscle forums you should find an answer. Bryan has recommended using glucosamine for this reason, at a dosage, I believe, of 1.8g, three times a day(I could be misremembering, though) I myself while dieting, started using 2g, three times a day(Though I was sorta inconsistent, and didn't notice much of a difference in terms of needing to refeed less frequently) or any other sign it was doing anythig. There were too many variables for me to really say if it was effective or not, though. If you use Now brand glucosamine HCL, though, it's pretty cheap(180 1gram caps for about $13)
 
Guys,

This is very interesting. I have only recently heard of leptin and that people wouldnt be talking about it till maybe a decade later.

I am assuming that for keeping maximum fat gain at bay, leptin levels have to be high and constant?

Is there any evidence looking specifically at using glucosamine to elevate leptin levels?

Funny how a supplement for joints can be use for fat loss.

Any type of glucosamine would do?
 
Hi, Spencer

[you wrote]

&gt; I am assuming that for keeping maximum fat gain at bay,
&gt; leptin levels have to be high and constant?

It seems so -- I am no expert, of course.

&gt; Is there any evidence looking specifically at using
&gt; glucosamine to elevate leptin levels?

There are now many papers that one can look up at www.PubMed.com. Just go to that website and type in &quot;hexosamine.&quot; One abstract I saw seems to be about administration of glucosamine on human subjects. Other papers are about experiments on mice.

Many of these papers, unless I am mistaken, seem to describe elevated leptin levels following glucosamine intake.

&gt; Any type of glucosamine would do?

I don't know. Does anyone know?

It is not clear if glucosamine should be taken orally (it might be broken down in our digestive tract). I am not sure about dosage either, even though Bryan has posted at thinkmuscle.com that one should take 1.5 g / meal. Where does that number come from, and why??

I have been trying to parse papers at PubMed, but I am not much good at it.

P.S. I have seen Bryan's post at thinkmuscle, but not much information there, other than recommendations regarding intake of zinc, glucosamine, and vitamine E.
 
I have posed a question on this at Lyle McDonald's forum, and he was negative on glucosamine.

While he understands that having increased amount of glucosamine &quot;inside/around&quot; fat cells elevate leptin production, he feels that oral delivery of glucosamine is rather poor, and is unlikely raise leptin production.
 
Hi virtualcyber,

Thanks for the explanation.


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.S.     I have seen Bryan's post at thinkmuscle, but not much information there, other than recommendations regarding intake of zinc, glucosamine, and vitamine E.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Mind if you can copy and paste Bryan's posts here? I have only been there a few times and the way the forum is organised is kinda messy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have posed a question on this at Lyle McDonald's forum, and he was negative on glucosamine.

   While he understands that having increased amount of glucosamine &quot;inside/around&quot; fat cells elevate leptin production, he feels that oral delivery of glucosamine is rather poor, and is unlikely raise leptin production.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Wheres Lyle's forum? Been trying to contact him but he seem so elusive.

Seems like two friends (Bryan and Lyle) disagreeing on something here.
laugh.gif
. Maybe we should listen to Lyle? since he is the fat loss expert.
laugh.gif


How about injecting glucosamine?
 
There are two places where he is around.

(1) The first is:

http://www.theketogenicdiet.com

You can click on &quot;the Keto Forum.&quot; You will see a screen that asks you to verify that you own his book. Just click on that button, and you will arrive at his forum.

======================================

(1) The second place is the usenet

misc.fitness.weights

You can go there using www.dejanews.com. You can also post. It is a great service, by google.
 
Hi virtualcyber,

I checked out the ketogenic diet forum. Looks cool to me except the way the forum is organised. Kinda messy. Lyle seems very patient with the people there and he posts frequently. I thought he is an eccentric fellow judging from his posts at MFW. The people at MFW seem out to get him. Lyle practically quarrelling with the people over there!

I have got zero knowledge on fat loss as i have been focused on hypertrophy all along (diet wise).

BTW, are you Chinese? You seem to have a chinese name. Your nickname at the ketogenic diet is Kris?
 
Hi, spencer

I like Lyle. His posts are often hilarious -- I think some people take his posts too seriously. BTW, if you post something on his site, he will answer your post for sure. He probably thinks that you purchased his book!! :D

When I enter his forum, I am automatically &quot;nicked&quot; as Kris, probably due to server error. You will see that there are many who are all nicked Kris.

===================

As for my nationality, I am Korean. Full name is Ji-Yong Chung, but somewhat difficult to remember/pronounce, so, generally I go by David.
 
Its an interesting topic

Just doing a quick pubmed search, it would seem in aidocyte cultures, glucoasmine addition at 1mmol will increase leptin production by 134% and at 0.01mM it can icnrease productiong by 120% (both at 96 hours)

* from Zhang et al.  Hexosamines regulate leptin production in 3T3-L1 adipocytes through transcriptional mechanisms. Endocrinology 2002;143:99-106

Unfortuantely there is no real research (that I can find) that does this experiementation on humans (in vivo). But that doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

In order to get glucosamine to the adipose it would have to be

1) absorbed (which obviously it is, as the arthritis supplementation trials show.)

2) in high enough concentration to illicit an effect (I dont know this one, I can ask one of the guys at uni whos doing his masters on glucosamine supplementation of joint injuries)

3) Be available to adipose, blood flow etc. I dont know enough about glucoasmine metabolism (only basic system) to know how it is effected by liver etc,
Human trials would be nice


But on another topic, EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) also stimulates leptin production by the hexosamine pathway. They dont mention the actual concentration of EPA, but it increased leptin production by 309% in 24 hour (compared to control)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract
 
Here is a study done on humans ... (I think)

Hexosamines regulate leptin production in human subcutaneous adipocytes.

Considine RV, Cooksey RC, Williams LB, Fawcett RL, Zhang P, Ambrosius WT, Whitfield RM, Jones R, Inman M, Huse J, McClain DA.
 
Its one of the long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, or LCPUFA. Generally from fish oils. As in EPA/DHA etc

Just do a web search and you will get billions of replys
 
Hi, Aaron

I was excited about EPA for a moment, until I found other papers that seem to &quot;contradict&quot; the paper you cited.

For example,
&quot;Reduction of leptin gene expression by dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids.&quot;

Reseland JE, Haugen F, Hollung K, Solvoll K, Halvorsen B, Brude IR, Nenseter MS, Christiansen EN, Drevon CA.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (virtualcyber @ June 27 2002,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is a study done on humans ... (I think)

Hexosamines regulate leptin production in human subcutaneous adipocytes.

Considine RV, Cooksey RC, Williams LB, Fawcett RL, Zhang P, Ambrosius WT, Whitfield RM, Jones R, Inman M, Huse J, McClain DA.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just from a quick look at the study, its not an experiemental trial.
By the looks of it they took adipose samples from 17 obese and compared these to 14 lean.
They then compared the association between the amounts of UDP-N-acetylglucosamine and BMI and also between UDP-N-acetylglucosamine and serum leptin.

the second part of the study was experimental, where they added an inhibitor of UDP-N-acetylglucosamine biosynthesis, and this decreased leptin and ob gene expression.

Unfortuantely because its not in vivo experimental it cant be classed as showing the ability of glucosamine supplement increasing leptin.
(I should have been more precise in asking for human experiments)
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I like Lyle. His posts are often hilarious -- I think some people take his posts too seriously. BTW, if you post something on his site, he will answer your post for sure. He probably thinks that you purchased his book!!

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, i like Lyle too! That guy is funny! Wondering how does he look like. Must be a 5% bodyfat individual
laugh.gif
, considering his expertise in fat loss.

Theres something wrong with his website right? i mean, by clicking on the button &quot;verify own book&quot; when you DONT own it, you can get into the forum? is the forum only for owners of his book?

I would love to purchase his book but i cannot apply any of the principles as i dont count calories. I follow more like a &quot;hit and miss&quot; diet, just eating as much food as possible.
laugh.gif


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for my nationality, I am Korean. Full name is Ji-Yong Chung, but somewhat difficult to remember/pronounce, so, generally I go by David.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Finally! Asian! Can tell me more about yourself? Are you living in Korea now? I am assuming South Korea? How do you feel about your national soccer team reaching the semi finals of the World Cup? Seems to me, the whole of South Korea is celebrating!
 
Yes, I am South Korean, living in the USA. And when Korean soccer team lost, I was pi@#$@#$. It was fun watching, even though thanks to Lars, I kept imagining &quot;The Fat Bastard&quot; telling me what a loser I am for watching spectator sports.
 
Come on,

Such a short reply!
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
! We still got Lyle to talk about! That guy is great! Would like to know about him. Got any information? Do you follow his advice? I went to MFW and looks like i have got a ton of old posts to read through! Do you know of any websites that presents Lyle's knowledge in a layman's version?

Did you purchase his online book?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, I am South Korean, living in the USA. And when Korean soccer team lost, I was pi@#$@#$. It was fun watching, even though thanks to Lars, I kept imagining &quot;The Fat Bastard&quot; telling me what a loser I am for watching spectator sports.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

How old are you? Are you studying there? You rooming with Lars?
 
Hi, Spencer

&gt; Such a short reply!

I did not know &quot;shortness&quot; really mattered. Wait, actually I did, but only in reference to things like height, pants, organs, etc.

&gt; We still got Lyle to talk about! That guy is great! Would like
&gt; to know about him. Got any information?

He is entertaining alright. Unfortunately, I don't have any information about that man. It is not like he is my idol or my buddy.

&gt; Do you follow his advice?

No. Not because they are no good. I would follow his advice, if I could only follow my own. For example, &quot;don't waste your time at public internet health forums.&quot;

&gt; I went to MFW and looks like i have got a ton of old posts
&gt; to read through! Do you know of any websites that
&gt; presents Lyle's knowledge in a layman's version?
&gt; Did you purchase his online book?

No websites. As for his book, yes, I did purchase it. I recommend it.

&gt; How old are you?

:confused: Are you planning to ask me out next?

In any case, let's not talk about age. It is depressing. That is why I started the thread &quot;speculations on keto diet and longevity.&quot;

&gt; Are you studying there?

No, I just live here. I am currently working for the United States Patent Office, as a computer geek.

&gt; You rooming with Lars?

No -- I don't know Lars. To me, he is one of friendly guys on this forum, a guy who does not believe in spectator sports, and someone who I strongly associate with &quot;Fat Bastard.&quot; (thanks to his avatar).

==========================

Spencer -- I have a number of questions, too, but I won't ask them now. I will ask them in different context, perhaps another time!!
:D :D
 
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