UD 2.0 with HST

R

redfury

New Member
I have done six cycles of HST, with each cycle basically following the Haycock methodology. I have experienced dramatic gains in lean mass and moderate gains in overall strength. (goal was to increase lean mass)

Here is my dilemma; I am just below 12 % BF and want to get to 9-10 %. I have had difficulty reducing carbs/fat during HST as it just wears me out. ( I am not 20 anymore)

I have read Lyle's UD 2.0 and have somewhat bought into his cyclical diet plan. I was wondering what others thought about using his diet and following the Haycock HST. I emailed Lyle and his response was that I would need to stick to his workout plan with the diet to experience results, but his plan just condenses HST into a 7 day plan instead of 6-8 week HST progression...

So I am looking for feedback from the HST vets on this one!
 
UD 2.0 is a diet and a workout. If do not do the workout then you are not doing UD 2.0. Part of UD 2.0 is glycogen depletion and the prescribed workout is necessary for that. Stick with Lyle's workout on UD 2.0. Come back to HST when you have hit your BF% goal.
 
What Lyle said.

UD2.0 is HST, in my opinion, condensed into a smaller time frame and with dietary tweaks that allow for rapid fat loss and strength/LBM maintenance or even gain.

The main drivers are all there:

1) frequency principle You're hitting the entire body every 36hrs (at least) keeping gene expression humming.

2) progressive overload (not only going from high rep to tension to power work out, but also the power workout and striving for heavier weights EVERY WEEK are the core of this system)

3) SD after 6-8 weeks of UD2.0 you back off and deload (or SD as you see fit)


Good luck

(BTW you can cut just fine with HST. Just keep it heavy)
 
Thanks for the replies, I just wanted to verify with some vets before trusting one's word, albeit research indicates he does have alot of backers.

I've read his book a few times through now and will give it an 6-8 week trial.
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Aug. 26 2008,8:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Isn't Ultimate Diet 2.0 an ant-carbohydrate diet?</div>
Like bgates said

Its cyclical.

the lower carb intake on certain days is for:

1) eliciting certain hormonal responses vis-a-vis lowered insulin and low glycogen stores in muscle tissue. this leads to increase lipolysis in muscle tissues and increased catecholamine output (bye bye stubborn fat)
2) providing a sufficient cut to caloric intake which obviously can't come from protein
3) allowing for glycogen depletion which in turn sets one up for glycogen supercompensation and an anabolic rebound (and this works with a vengeance. I am so much stronger post carb load than &quot;normal' that I begin to get depressed during 'normal workouts' remembering my carb load glory!)
 
A quick update to my UD 2.0 plan and a big thanks to you guys who said to stick with it and not mess with things!

I have really seen a dramatic result in fat in just 15 days, I can really see solid definition in chest , arms, and back, with the abs coming in nicely too.

The plan is very tough in beginning, but like previous posts, there is nothing better than going from starvation workouts to carb loading and power workouts, you feel a pump that is hard to describe- no if only I could get that more often.....
 
redfury, what are your exercises for the two depletion workouts on Mon and Tues? I am basically doing 15s with a selection of compounds but with a pile more work sets. Do you split the depletion into two different workouts or just repeat the same workout with the same weights each day?

The other two workouts are easy: the strain workout is a heavy 10s workout and the power workout is a heavy 5s workout.

Can someone please explain to me why it matters that rest periods are kept short between sets during the depletion workouts? Is it just to try to get everything done in a reasonable time or is there another reason?

I am going to try to reduce time between sets each week but I'm not going to push it too hard too soon. I still had good results the first week using two minute rests between depletion sets.

Surely, muscle glycogen is still being depleted just as effectively whether there's more rest between sets or not? I appreciate that metabolic by-products will have more chance to dissipate with more rest between sets but how is that affecting depletion? If I start a set feeling more fatigued from the effects of lactic acid build up does that deplete muscle glycogen more effectively or do I just fry my CNS more from struggling to get the reps?
rock.gif
 
lol

if i recall lyle simply mentions the rest of about 60-90 secs being long enough to avoid puking yet still elevate hormone and lactate levels.

from the forums and my exper. the real depletion comes from concentrating on TUT (45-60secs)and not the reps or wgt used (as long as its not ridic. light.)

either way, i typically felt pretty crappy during the depletions w/os regardless of wgt used/rest time/reps etc. for the 1st few weeks. it was more about the low carbs. by weeks 3-4 i was pretty adapted and the depl. w/os, while no picnic, really werent that hard. the power w/o on the other hand i struggled with. i sure enjoyed most aspects of the carb load (except the extreme fullness) but lifting real heavy only once a week, and the rest being quite light, was a real hard for me. i just didnt do well with that w/o set-up.....but the diet sure did work.

lol are you reading or doing UD2.0?
 
Thanks bluejacket. Very helpful info.

Yes, I have the UD2 booklet and am now doing as Lyle recommends until I get below 10% bf. I have never done a proper cut before so thought I would give it a go. Even at the end of just one week of 'lightish' lifting, diving into a heavy workout was really tough mentally.

My main concern now is to really get to grips with my cals. I need to get a decent set of kitchen scales so I can weigh my portions accurately to give me a better idea of what I am actually eating. Guessing is not really good enough anymore if I want to give UD2 a fair shot.
 
yes

keeping a real good record of what your eating will pay off. with UD2.0 i found it easier then typical dieting. after a week or two of measr. portions etc. to get your cal and macro intake at the right level you tend to eat the same stuff everyday (except the loads). i just prepared a bunch of chicken, grnd turkey, even scrambled eggs etc. in advance and then parceled it out for each day. typically, i only really cooked dinner each day and simply re-heated the rest of my meals.

and as far as tracking. when your eating that little and its typically the same stuff......takes about 20seconds on fitday.

good luck
 
I will not pretend to be an expert and able to give you sound advice on best foods or routine, here is what I basically do and it really has worked for me... I should add that I have spent the previous 18 months doing HST routines before beginning UD 2.0.


Diet: I try to keep it very simple since I have a busy schedule and need to pre make meals for week.

Days 1-2 and half way through 3
1200 cals (approx)

5 egg whites, 1 whole egg
1 can tuna
3 chicken breasts
2 scoops whey protein
1 green pepper
1 zucchinni
naked salad
small banana sometimes
Plenty of caffeine throughout day to keep energy

Day 4 - same as 1-3 except after final depletion workout I jump into carb load for evening meals

Day 5- Intense carb load- my goal is 150 carbs x 8-10 meals and it sounds fun, but I get ill in afternoon from stuffing myself

Day 6- 1500 cals , eating carbs in morning and back to green at night

Day 7 - 1400 ish cals, carbs in morning...I keep same foods as listed in 1-3 for simplicity sake, just measure out more or less as needed. These foods keep your grocery bill down too.

Workouts
- Days 1-2 depletion full body workouts done in supersets. I do supersets like i did in HST cycles with only rest between walking to workout stations. If I find myself breathing heavy I wait till breathing is easy- usually 20 secs.

Day 3- I chill (not a fan of cardio)

Day 4- 4 sets of 6-12 reps usually I end up around 7-8ish. I keep it relatively heavy around 70 % max.

Day 5- Chill and stuffing my face.

Day 6- Power workout , 5-6 sets of 3 reps. rest a lil longer but usually 45 secs as I don't have all night to be in gym.

Day 7- chill and low carbing mostly.

As far as excersizes;

from hst days I prefer compound lifts, seem to work best for me.

Now I superset on all workout days, this may not be most suitable for others, but it works for me.

Squats
Inc Bench
Deads
Pullups
Leg Press
Rows
Abs *machines*
Shoulder Press *Bar*
Flat Bench
Curls
Dips

Day 1,2 : 65 % start and adding 5 % each week
Day 4: 70-80 % and adding 20 lbs each week.
Day 6: 80 % adding 10-15 lbs each week

I am 3 weeks in now.
Weight is 173-174 on depletion days.
Weight is 176-178 by weeks end.
BF is down to around 10 % ish, based on bio impedance and calipers being compared.
 
Thanks for the info redfury and for your further insights bluejacket. All very helpful stuff.

Redfury, how many sets per body part do you do for depletions? I am trying to do 5 or 6 sets per workout for about 5 or 6 exercises. I'm alternating exercises too, so if I do rows and bench one night I'll do chins and dips the next. My cardio fitness just isn't good enough to only rest for one minute between sets of squats but it is improving. Everything else seems a lot easier by comparison.
 
Lol:

FWIW I was doing 6 sets per body part (only 4 for tris bis and shoulders) on both monday and tuesday. I'd vary exercises quite a bit (incline bench for 3 sets, dips for another three, flat bench for another three, etc)

Def get a scale for your food! Ever since I've gotten a digital scale its opened up a whole new vista. No guess work about intake, no guilt about 'over eating' when in fact nothing of the sort has happened, etc. You just follow the math and don't worry at all, as results become predictable. All the subjective indicators we tend to go by are revealed for the complete and utter BS that they are when you begin to quantify things.

Even &quot;fullness&quot; most importantly becomes an utterly useless sensation for guiding a diet when you note that sometimes a 600 calorie meal will make you feel full and heavy, and sometimes a 1500 cal meal will do nothing of the sort. But the only way to be free of all that crap is weigh weigh weigh!

Good luck.
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Sep. 09 2008,7:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">... But the only way to be free of all that crap is weigh weigh weigh!

Good luck.</div>
Ditto.

Kind of a mantra...  
wow.gif
 
wow.gif
 
wow.gif
 
<div>
(beingisbeing @ Sep. 09 2008,6:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lol:

FWIW I was doing 6 sets per body part (only 4 for tris bis and shoulders) on both monday and tuesday. I'd vary exercises quite a bit (incline bench for 3 sets, dips for another three, flat bench for another three, etc)

Def get a scale for your food! Ever since I've gotten a digital scale its opened up a whole new vista. No guess work about intake, no guilt about 'over eating' when in fact nothing of the sort has happened, etc. You just follow the math and don't worry at all, as results become predictable. All the subjective indicators we tend to go by are revealed for the complete and utter BS that they are when you begin to quantify things.

Even &quot;fullness&quot; most importantly becomes an utterly useless sensation for guiding a diet when you note that sometimes a 600 calorie meal will make you feel full and heavy, and sometimes a 1500 cal meal will do nothing of the sort. But the only way to be free of all that crap is weigh weigh weigh!

Good luck.</div>
Thanks Being (and nkl).

I totally agree that it's misguided to go by 'gut' instinct when trying to diet. I'll order a set of kitchen scales soon and take the guesswork out of the equation.
 
LOL- those will really help, plus use fitday or the other free online diet manager offered up in previous posts- it helps with keeping %'s of prot,carbs, fat in check if your keeping track...I know with UD it's important to keep the %'s in range for best results and I got tired of using calculators daily- fitday has a percentage chart that will show ya the %'s of each which is handy.

Anyone else turning green on carb load days- I did mine on Sat night into Sunday night and ate 8 200 carb pasta meals...ugggghhh!
 
Progress Report;

I havent posted for some time , mostly just been too busy but also wanted to wait until I could give some decent feedback for UD plan and how it's been working for me.

I just came off a 30 hour carb load and am feeling a little bloated but muscles are definitely primed for tonight's power workout.

I have been doing UD since around my first post on this thread and dont want to be redundant with previous info so see above for info...

My current weight is 176 lbs and approx BF is 9 %. I had calipers, biopedence with two different devices done on me this weekend.

This has been a dramatic fat loss program for me, I can't say that strength has increased significantly- i generally am adding 5 lbs per day of lifting still. The actual &quot;look&quot; of the muscle is what is awesome, especially during days 5-7 the muscles just remain pumped.

I really credit something most wouldn't- WATER. I have been drinking 2 gallons daily and while other programs would usually just make you look bloated, for reasons I don't fully grasp yet- it really works for both load and for depletion. Water has kept me from crampin on depletion and really strengthens me when power lifting.

I did a test of stupid sorts in beginning of oct...I only drank minimal water as I used to during past workouts on a depletion day- huge mistake. I think i had about 4 glasses of water for the day- well come workout time I did usual stretch and light work-up then jumped into squats...after first set I was walkin to bench press and bam! my left hamstrings and upper rear knee just cramped unbelievably bad...too late for water now so I just had to wait it out and fight through the workout. I got lucky and didnt really injure myself but goes to show importance of hydration.

anyways, i will quit rambling- I have lost about 3 % BF in 7 weeks and friends at gym have really been noticing, which is a nice motivator since they are experienced lifters.

Now I don't claim to be anything close to competition ready but the loss has me very motivated to keep training hard!

I am curious to hear about how LOL is doing with his program?
rock.gif
 
<div>
(redfury @ Oct. 20 2008,2:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I am curious to hear about how LOL is doing with his program?
rock.gif
</div>
Congrats on your progress redfury. Keep up the good work! You are further ahead than me but I'm doing ok. I reckon I'm about 11% right now but I want to get below 10%.

I've kept a record in my log (UD2 workouts start here) of body weight changes but I've only done one calliper test so far. I tend to check my weight once a week now, on Thursdays after depletions and before carbing up.

I'm trying to increase my fluids a bit as I was starting to get cramps at night. As I'm taking creatine as well I think it's even more important.

I love the start of the carb load but then I get all bloated and lethargic during Friday. I'm actually enjoying the low carb, low cal days at the moment more than the weekend as I just feel like I'm fattening up again when I'm eating more!  
smile.gif
 My biggest difficulty is in trying to keep my cals under 2k and get enough protein. If I resort to adding 2 x 30g whey supps a day then I can reach my target grams of protein without fat content going up too much. It's amazing how much meat I would have to eat just to get 200g of protein a day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top