Vinegar anyone

B

BIZ

New Member
Some of you may remember discussion here about the benefits of vinegar consumption before eating a meal containing CHO. Avantlabs has a lengthy thread going about it right now that I follow. First, let me say that I have been using ~2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar right before my post-workout shake which at the moment is the bulk of my carb-intake for the day (~75g dextrose mixed in with Drive+). If for some reason I have a meal with more carbs, for instance hosting a barbecue, I down a few shots of vinegar before eating.

Effects (anecdotal of course): Muscles feel fuller, and no post-competition bloat from increased carb intake. In fact, I am staying leaner than I have before.

According to some of the chatter at the Avantlabs forum, their is soem evidence that acetic acid also raises leptin production as well as increasing glycogen recompensation (especially in the muscle and liver).

Anyone else using the vinegar pre-carbs, or I am the only one crazy enough to still down the stuff?
 
I am going to start when I start cutting the next cycle. I read the old thread on it and also some research (not much out there BTW) but I have a question. I also remeber in the same thread something about PH levels and using baking soda (I think), have you tried that as well?
 
Biz,

Currently I am using vinegar in my diet. Have been using it for about a month now. I read the articles from an old thread that dkm1987 mentions in his post. I too have noticed that after I have carbs right after taking the vinegar that I'm not as bloated. Being bloated is something that I had trouble with quite often but now, until you mentioned it, I have noticed that it has subsided quite a bit. I too tkae it after my workouts and before big carb meals. Right after my workout I will have my post workout shake of protein and maltodextrin. ABout an hour later I will have take the vinegar right before my oats and protein meal.

dkm1987,

I was taking baking soda right before bed but I have since stopped. I feel real bloated right after taking it and then let out a huge belch and then I am fine. I tried also looking for potassium bicarbonate because the thread mentioned both of these combined but you have to have a prescription to get it. Also it mentioned to that during the 15's it wasn't a good idea to take it, at least I think I remember seeing that, because it effects the lactic acid buildup. Not sure if that was totally correct or not.

Regards,
Geno
 
ok so i took about 1 tblespoon and a half of black vinegar(stuff used for dipping dumplings) and had my carbs. i Felt REALLLY bloated, like overly bloated more than usual. So then i made a protein shake afterwards with milk and basically the bloating went away almost instantly.

my question is, will any vinegar cause this bloating effect on me? or is it just the black vinegar that has this... ill effect.

and also, does the milk really just cancel the acetic acid completely out, so it's useless if i drink milk an hour or so after vinegar?
 
I am not sure about milk (base) cancelling out the effect of acetic acid. Legitimate concern. I will say that is has not hurt me as far as I can tell. I like to have milk with my shakes and I still get the pump from the vinegar. I use apple cider vinegar, some use balsamic vinegar (i guess it is much easier to swallow), it really doesn't matter too much as long as you get the acetic acid. I have read of guys mixing their vinegar with water and Crystal Light to help with the burn. I usually just gulp down 2-3 tbsp and chase it with a big swig of water.

Dan:
I remember people talking about the baking soda as acid buffer, but cannot recall the details and how it related to prohormone absorption. I'll have to dig around a bit and let you know what I find.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BIZ @ May 04 2005,7:49)]I am not sure about milk (base) cancelling out the effect of acetic acid.  Legitimate concern.  I will say that is has not hurt me as far  as I can tell.  I like to have milk with my shakes and I still get the pump from the vinegar.  I use apple cider vinegar, some use balsamic vinegar (i guess it is much easier to swallow), it really doesn't matter too much as long as you get the acetic acid.  I have read of guys mixing their vinegar with water and Crystal Light to help with the burn.  I usually just gulp down 2-3 tbsp and chase it with a big swig of water.  
Dan:
I remember people talking about the baking soda as acid buffer, but cannot recall the details and how it related to prohormone absorption.  I'll have to dig around a bit and let you know what I find.
Click to expand...
Will start using; what's your take on apple cider vinegar tablets instead of liquid?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (zoomz @ May 04 2005,11:39)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BIZ @ May 04 2005,7:49)]I am not sure about milk (base) cancelling out the effect of acetic acid.  Legitimate concern.  I will say that is has not hurt me as far  as I can tell.  I like to have milk with my shakes and I still get the pump from the vinegar.  I use apple cider vinegar, some use balsamic vinegar (i guess it is much easier to swallow), it really doesn't matter too much as long as you get the acetic acid.  I have read of guys mixing their vinegar with water and Crystal Light to help with the burn.  I usually just gulp down 2-3 tbsp and chase it with a big swig of water.  
Dan:
I remember people talking about the baking soda as acid buffer, but cannot recall the details and how it related to prohormone absorption.  I'll have to dig around a bit and let you know what I find.
Click to expand...
Will start using; what's your take on apple cider vinegar tablets instead of liquid?
Click to expand...
Should be fine. Do they tell you what the acetic acid content is of each pill? According to the available research, you will want to get .2g acetic acid per 100g of CHO, which is roughly 2-3 tbsp. of vinegar.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Thanks BIZ....btw, any word on your recent comp photos?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, none of them turned out and I didn't bother with the professional photographer they had there. We were not allowed to use flash photography, so my wife's digital camera did not work too good. I will try to get a recent pic posted of what I look like now, albeit without the tan and some water back under the skin. Sorry to disappoint being I said I would post a pic from the show.
 
I've started playing with vinegar recently myself, adding it here and there in my diet, which isn't too hard since I've always liked it. Some things I do:
2 Tblspoons white vinegar, a squirt of lemon juice, and some water to dilute it, goes down pretty easily.

Red wine vinegar, chopped tomatoes, garlic, oregano, a little olive oil, for salad dressing and dipping bread into, yum.

I haven't done this long enough or consistantly enough to know if it's working, but I'm going to keep at it for a while and see what happens. Trying to get abs for the summer
thumbs-up.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Staxx @ May 06 2005,2:04)]BIZ,
Would this also be good for bulking?
Thanks!
Staxx
Click to expand...
Would be ideal for bulking to help with damage control...
 
BIZ, what exactly do you mean by "damage control"? Are you talking about minimizing bloating, or will vinegar help to reduce the amount of fat you put on?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BIZ @ May 05 2005,7:13)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (zoomz @ May 04 2005,11:39)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (BIZ @ May 04 2005,7:49)]I am not sure about milk (base) cancelling out the effect of acetic acid.  Legitimate concern.  I will say that is has not hurt me as far  as I can tell.  I like to have milk with my shakes and I still get the pump from the vinegar.  I use apple cider vinegar, some use balsamic vinegar (i guess it is much easier to swallow), it really doesn't matter too much as long as you get the acetic acid.  I have read of guys mixing their vinegar with water and Crystal Light to help with the burn.  I usually just gulp down 2-3 tbsp and chase it with a big swig of water.  
Dan:
I remember people talking about the baking soda as acid buffer, but cannot recall the details and how it related to prohormone absorption.  I'll have to dig around a bit and let you know what I find.
Click to expand...
Will start using; what's your take on apple cider vinegar tablets instead of liquid?
Click to expand...
Should be fine.  Do they tell you what the acetic acid content is of each pill?  According to the available research, you will want to get .2g acetic acid per 100g of CHO, which is roughly 2-3 tbsp. of vinegar.
Click to expand...
Thanks BIZ, I looked around different forums and that link at Avant was very helpful. I may eventually start the tabs but fior now have purchase regular apple cider vinegar 5% acetic acid. I assume this is a standard solution so you are saying 2-3Tbsp per 100g CHO. Not sure if I'm right but i believe if vinegar is 5% then .4% per 100g CHO comes to 5cc.
For everyones information there is evidence that the acid does eventually affect the teeth by yellowing them so the buffers would cancel this.
I will for niow just take the vinegar pre and post and mix it with a little water and then just do a quick mouth rinse.
 
Read the Avant thread.......seemed to contain a lot more about personal experience than what vinegar/acetic acid actually does.......can someone educate me please? :D
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jester @ May 08 2005,12:50)]Read the Avant thread.......seemed to contain a lot more about personal experience than what vinegar/acetic acid actually does.......can someone educate me please?  :D
Click to expand...
The acetic acid in vinegar has been found to increase calcium absorption in the gut in previous studies, but the more recent studies (rat models of course) show that acetic acid helps in replenishing glycogen stores in the liver via gluconeogenesis and glycolysis inhibition. In the muscle, it works via inhibition of glycolysis. In other words, it is not due to increased insulin production, faster gastric emptying, or glucose uptake. There is some evidence that acetic acid positively affects leptin signaling, therefore allowing one to lose a bit more bodyfat (the increased leptin is not significant in the short term, but slight elevations on a daily basis for several months could be beneficial). As to the question about vinegar being used as damage control, I meant that when you feel that you need to or want to eat a bunch of carbs (100+ in a meal), that taking some acetic acid with the meal will act as a sort nutrient partioning agent and hopefully shuttle more of the sugar into your muscle and liver. Obviously, it can only do so much considering your muscles can only hold so many carbs, so if you eat a meal containing 400-500g of CHO, then you are gonna have quite a bit of spill over. The feeling I get when I use acetic acid with my carb meals is alot like what is called glycogen supercompensation. I tend to fill out more, feel pumped, but the effect is temporary, just as supercompensation is.
 
Just to add to this thread, I have added MCT to my diet along with the vinegar for this cycle.  I'm just treating this as a personal experiment at the moment but it does seem to be working.  Since acetic acid is supposed to disrupt/slow glycolysis and MCT's are supposed to be a fat that is not readily stored (i.e. will be used as energy), shouldn't these two work well together at both sparing glycogen and maintaining an anti-catabolic state?  I am definately losing fat but I will take a reading at the end of this week.  Any opinions on whether there is anything to this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top