4 week cycle! and exercise choice

S

_Simon_

Active Member
hey guys

in my next cycle it'll only have to be a 4 week one cos i'll be going on a holiday for about 8 days after the 4 weeks.
SO i'm thinking of just doing EITHER 2 weeks of 10s, 2 weeks of 5s, OR 1 week of 10s, 4 weeks of 5s/post 5s.

but i guess what my main concern is exercise choice. okay, my main priority right NOW is to build up my bis and tris and no NOT because i'm a stereotypical male that wants big arms, but it's because they're the only actual muscle groups that haven't grown, like at ALL (or barely) over my whole training ummm career.
so i'm thinking of having a very simple compounds workout like this:
Bench Press
Chins
Dips
possibly BB/DB Rows
Partial Military Press
Squats

BUT should i do an alternating workout instead? eg:
A-
Bench Press
Chins
Partial Mil Press
Squats

B-
Dips
BB/DB Rows
Partial Mil Press
Squats

i only ask because in terms of upper arm development. and would bench and dips be too much in one workout (if i WAS to stick to the non-alternating workout)? also would dips work the chest to the extent bench press does (if i WAS to alternate)? i know it does when you angle yourself forwards (cos i do know that etothepii does this alternating bench and dips).
AND because i don't think i can row that much, should i keep the chins on that B day? or add BB curls???

thanks heaps if ya can help me out fellas
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Try supersetting chins+incline curls and dips+skull crushers for 2 or 3 sets.

That should get your arms going!

your A/B set up is the way to go! Just throw in those supersets, then cut down to 2 sets on 5's.
 
Since you are doing such a short cycle, I would just do 5s. Use the first two weeks to ramp up to your 5 RM, then just do your 5 RM for the rest of it. Maybe on the last couple workouts, you can try increasing the weights beyond your 5 RM and see what happens.

If you want to focus on arms, then yeah, throw in a couple sets for bis and a couple for tris at the end of each workout. Many people here will tell you that there is no point and you should focus on the compounds, but it's your goals. So if your goal is larger arms, then by all means, go ahead and do it.

I would arrange volume so that you are doing enough to maintain with lower body and really focusing on upper. Like 1 or 2 x 5 for squats, then 3 to 5 x 5 on the upper stuff. Only 2 or 3 sets on the arm work though. But hit the arms each workout, they should grow as long as you eat enough. Since you are only going for four weeks, I would expect that it would be a lot easier for you to be very strict and regimented about counting and meeting your daily calorie intake during the cycle.
 
hmmm, interesting thoughts yeah i might do ABA format, but i don't know my RM for Rows at all so i might just stick with chins??? (so i'd just be alternating bench press with dips lol)

haha fausto and when i said i wanted bigger arms i didn't just mean a pump HEHE! and i might superset chins with bb curls ay, or actually do you think that 1 set of BB curls after the LAST (ie 3rd) workset of chins would be good enough? i'm just thinkin, if i did 3 SETS of chins EACH ONE havin BB curls after them, i would not go good with chins HAHA

okay, but HYPOTHETICALLY if i supersetted 3 set of chins with bb curls say, how long WOULD i rest between sets?!? 10 minutes?!? haha

thanks heaps fausto and totz yeah that's made things clearer for me...

OH and totz u reckon just do 4 weeks of 5s? i'm sure i'll get growth from that... i should of course yeah. so u reckon not superset them? i reckon supersetting say chinups with BB curls will create SO much fatigue i reckon... i really reckon having about two worksets of bb curls or so (this'll be in the 5s though ay, not that that's a bad thing haha like 5RM bb curls)

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But hit the arms each workout, they should grow as long as you eat enough.</div>

i really hope so haha i like your idea of maintaining lower body and workin upper, as then THEORETICALLY the incoming calories will go towards the upper body... lol but i'd still be increasing squat weight hmmmm....

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you want to focus on arms, then yeah, throw in a couple sets for bis and a couple for tris at the end of each workout. Many people here will tell you that there is no point and you should focus on the compounds, but it's your goals. So if your goal is larger arms, then by all means, go ahead and do it.</div>

hmm but yeah i'm just thinking because i've ALWAYS done isolations for arms and they haven't ever 'worked', so u think still increasing weights and so forth for bb curls? (and tri extensions for 5 REPS???)

ok after ALL that rambling, my thoughts on this are:
1) do the ABA (but keeping the chins and don't have rows)
2) do 2 or so sets extra for arms (say BB curls and tricep pushdowns???), progressing in weights
3) i'm really thinking 1 week of 10s and 3 weeks of 5s/post 5s, hmm i'll think about doing 4 weeks of 5s
4) MAYBE just cutting down to two sets for chins if i'm doing bb curls already? ARRRRGH i'm still rambling lol

really appreciate your help guys thanks a million again yo
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Instead of supersetting for the fatigue stimulus, why not do your isolations for arms with a higher rep range instead, like 10-15 rep range. For triceps, you can do some sets of close grip bench press in the 5 rep range, then finish it off with extensions or whatever iso for triceps with a higher rep range.

As for the whole idea of isolations not necessarily being good for arm growth - I've no idea about the validity of it all. My arms haven't grown a whole lot and I haven't ever really stuck with any arm work other than what the compounds do, so maybe some isolation is necessary, then again maybe not. Mine have gone from 14 inches when I was &quot;untrained&quot; and starting HST for the first time to the current 15.5 inches, which is still pretty small. That's almost entirely the result of heavy compounds - rowing, chinning, deadlifting, etc. Would they have grown more if I had done curls once a week? Who knows.

In your case, it's possible you've just never eaten enough, or maybe you were doing too much work for the rest of your body, so your arms weren't getting as much of the incoming calories, blah blah, etc etc. I can't really say. But if you are nervous about it, then just don't do heavy BB curls. Do your heavy chins, etc, all that, and do some lighter curls in the 10-15 rep range, which will give you an insane pump, some fatigue stimulus and maybe enough volume to get a good growth stimulus?
You'll just have to experiment and see.


The one other thing you could try is to do all your compounds the way we've already described. Then at the end of your workout, do max-stim for your arms. Curls are very easy to do max-stim style, I hear. You can do 20 reps with your 5 RM for curls, if nothing else works, I would think that would make them grow.
 
I would ramp up and then use planned overtraining (reaching) for the last week , let supercompensation work for me during your 8 day break , then come back very briefly (2 w/o's) ramp back up and go on about the remainder of my cycle - squeezing anywhere from 3-6 more weeks out before SD.

Just one way , everybody else had great advice too!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">SO i'm thinking of just doing EITHER 2 weeks of 10s, 2 weeks of 5s, OR 1 week of 10s, 4 weeks of 5s/post 5s.</div>

I would go with the latter as a 4 week version.
 
Don't forget that big arm measurements require big triceps. Heavy dips will help in that direction as will all the other upper-body pressing movements you do.

Like Totz said, I really wouldn't superset chins and curls. Too much fatigue to keep the loading high for long enough (ie. you won't get a many reps in either exercise unless you drop the loads).

Definitely try MaxStim for arm isos. Do a set of MaxStim curls at the end of w/o A and a set of MaxStim overhead tri-extensions (or skulls) at the end of w/o B. That way you can hit them hard and heavy without increasing CNS drain too much. You should be able to push beyond your 5RM over the 4 weeks. Don't feel that you have to get 20 reps either. After all, you are working your arms pretty hard already.
 
yeah actually that sounds good totz i'm gonna do 5s and then post 5s (4 weeks all up) for all COMPOUNDS and for my ISO's i'm gonna do 10s for two weeks and 5s for two weeks. sounds FUN ay ;)
BUT i'm not sure how many sets of iso's to do hmmm... 1 set for 10s and 2 for 5s??? or 2 and 3......

but why do max-stim i'm not sure i understand why, it seems that if i attempt more than 5 reps with my 5RM, it's working my muscles' metabolic efficiency and endurance rather than working to increase tension overload...

anyways:
A
Bench Press 3x5
Chins 3x5
Partial Mil Press 3x 5
Squats 3x5
arm iso's somewhere in there 1x 10 (or 2 x5)

B
Dips 3x5
Chins 3x5
Partial Mil Press 3x 5
Squats 3x5
arm iso's somewhere in there 1x 10 (or 2 x5)

thanks heaps guys ;)
 
<div>
(_Simon_ @ Sep. 26 2007,08:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but why do max-stim i'm not sure i understand why?</div>
If you do it, you will understand, Grasshopper.
wink.gif


Seriously, read it up on Dan's site. It's just about perfect for arm work.

Dan has put together an e-book for download in pdf form plus there's lots of info explaining the system and a forum for you to ask questions (or just ask them here).

Max Stim Site
 
<div>
(_Simon_ @ Sep. 26 2007,03:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">but why do max-stim i'm not sure i understand why, it seems that if i attempt more than 5 reps with my 5RM, it's working my muscles' metabolic efficiency and endurance rather than working to increase tension overload...</div>
Max-Stim allows you to increase the time under tension significantly.
 
yeah Lol i've read up on it heaps in the past

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Progressive Work Overload-Getting it done
Secondly much of my research has shown or actually proven what several well-known trainers, have said now for some time. In order to grow one must progressively increase the work that the muscle has been subjected too. Now since work is a product of load and distance moved, in our case reps, how we increase work is important. Increasing work via increasing the load has shown dramatic results in not only protein synthesis but also hypertrophy (77-81), yet increasing the number of reps has a much larger influence on the metabolic efficiency of the muscle cell. When trying to accommodate this into this training method this simplest solution is to keep a consistent number of reps throughout the entire cycle while periodically increasing the load.</div>

as dan states here, increasing the REPS you do with a load influences mainly the metabolic EFFICIENCY, but how is this useful for hypertrophy... OH! insight again!
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unleeess what you're trying to tell me is that using max stim whist progressively loading, so that even THOUGH you've gone above your 5RM in load, u can keep adding weight, but still getting the reps... is that right master?
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the question is... is this sufficient TUT (as in CONSTANT tension i really mean) for hypertrophy? eg in a set, if one does a rep, rests, and does another, this wouldn't be a set, but almost like many mini-sets, with enough intra-muscular/neuromuscular recovery for the next rep. isn't this more useful therefore for strength gains? hmm, because to me IMO starting and stopping a set wouldn't cause sufficient microtrauma but i'm just rambling, throwing ideas around, not really thinkin too much about it HAHA but if you could correcr my misunderstanding, it would be much appreciated hehe i'm just not sure if the Max-Stim site explains WHY doing max-stim will result in growth... but i sort of understand, but not quite lol

u did say <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You should be able to push beyond your 5RM over the 4 weeks. </div> , hmmm so therefore yeah progressive load could keep happening, but that's if i started my arm iso's in the 5s, and moved into the post-5s increasing weight RAPIDLY and doing max-stim style as well... is this what u advise for OPTIMAL arm-focused growth? haha

cheers mate ;)
 
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