5x5s

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Key Of David

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I've seen comments about guys doing "5x5s" in the past and now recently saw it explained.....its actually being used during HST.

Why go with such high volume?

I guess what I'm asking is what is so special about 5x5s?
 
Oh and just in case these seem like really dumb questions, just to let you know I do plan on downloading the FAQs PDF file as soon as I find out why this computer (isn't mine, but its the only one connected online) won't recognize a cd or dvd even though it has burners for both.
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I have to get it on my own computer in order to be able to read it and concentrate....no way can I do it on this one.
 
It sounds like you are confusing the 5s done in an HST cycle with the popular 5x5 routines, which are a different method of training based on largely similar principles to HST.

There is no one 5x5 routine, but a number of routines that are typically based on doing 5 sets of 5. Sometimes this is 5 sets with the same weight, sometimes 5 sets with weights that increase to a final top set.

The method was originated by the famous Olympic lifter Bill Starr, and used with great success by Glenn Pendlay and Mark Rippetoe. Probably the most popular versions are those popularized by "Madcow" here, which are basically copies of Starr/Pendlay routines.

Lots of HSTers like to run 5x5s sometimes and vice versa. HTH.
 
Adding to what Lifting N TX said, some people might use 5 sets of 5 reps at some point during HST simply to get in a lot of volume with heavy loads.

Order of importance of TRAINING factors in hypertrophy (under your control):

(progressive) load
total volume (sets x reps)
density (volume per unit time), maybe

But really, the first two are where most of it's at. You'll see some people fix reps fairly high throughout the cycle, e.g. "25 total reps per exercise," and meet this in different rep ranges in different ways.

Examples:

During 15's one set of 15, one set of 10 (2 sets)
During 10's, one set of 10, one set of 8, one set of 7 (3 sets)
During 5's, 5 sets of 5's (5 sets)

Obviously, this is a pretty ambitious rep target, and something more in the 15-20 total reps per exercise range is probably more realistic for many.

Also, performing a high volume of work with very heavy weights becomes impossible at some point. Like, if you're approaching your 5 rep max, you can't perform your 5 rep max 5 successive times. Or it isn't really your 5 rep max.

So I doubt people are using 5 x 5 in their second set of 5's, at least, even if they are aiming for a high number of total reps.
 
When you think about it, 5x5 only typically has you doing three lifts a day, which doesn't add up to a whole lot of volume. That's only 15 sets. A lot of guys do that many sets each day with HST.
 
If you use the 5x5 spreadsheet you will see that doing HST and Starr's 5x5 is very similar as far as frequency, volume, and progression.

I now will be using the spreadsheet to calculate all of my HST workouts in the future.

This is because after 2 weeks of 5x5, the weight is still about my 15RM, after 4weeks, it's about my 10RM at the end of 8 weeks, it's still about my 5RM - except the progression of HST or 5x5 will have made me stronger at the end.

What's the difference really in doing 5x5 or 2x10 then adding 5 more reps? Or 1x15 + a set of 10?

The principals are very similar and the end results either way are very good. My last month of HST will be 5x5 from now on too because I got the best results that way - not doing as well right now with 3x5. I just don't jump ship midprogram because I like to give everything an honest evaluation.

The biggest difference I see is (using my sad little squat for example):

HST
M 100lbs
W 110lbs
F 120lbs
M 130lbs
W 140lbs
F 150lbs

5x5
M 100lbs
W 110lbs
F 120lbs
M 110lbs
W 120lbs
F 130lbs

The difference is when switching from 15's to 10's then 10's to 5's with HST we reduce the weight again. With 5x5 you just keep making the same increase...increase...decrease...increase...increase...decrease.

At the end of 8 weeks, you are lifting about the same amount of weight either way you go.
 
Thanks for all the info guys. I was wondering what was up with all the 5x5 stuff.
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When I do 5X5, i do only two exercises per day, 4 days per week. That totals 40 sets per week. A sample routine would be:

M
Incline Bench
Pull ups

T
Military Press
Squats

Th
Dips
Seated Rows

F
Shrugs
Deadlifts
 
<div>
(Old and Grey @ Oct. 21 2006,12:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">When I do 5X5, i do only two exercises per day, 4 days per week. That totals 40 sets per week. A sample routine would be:

M
Incline Bench
Pull ups

T
Military Press
Squats

Th
Dips
Seated Rows

F
Shrugs
Deadlifts</div>
and do you stick to it religiously ie exactly 5x5?
i like the routine you laid out,looks like somethin i could do.
basically ive been on a hst hybrid for a while(which has been great)but its getting time for a change,and 5x5 maybe my next move after a cycle with max stim.
 
Typically I will do a 5X5 program once or even twice per year for 4 weeks at a time.

I pick a starting weight that is equal to my 5 rep max and do the first set. The second set I may get 4, etc. I keep the weight the same until I can get to 5 sets of 5 reps each and then increase it to my new 5 rep max.
 
I've just recently started a 5x5 myself, after a successful cycle of Max-Stim. It's important to note that there are lots variations in the 5x5 style routines, such as the two on the Madcow site that I linked to above. It's worth noting that what is appropriate for one person may not be best for another person at that time, or even for that same person at a later point in time. Not that I'm any 5x5 expert, I've just been doing some reading.

I'd say that it'd be worth your time to read the two posts by Glenn Pendlay here, in order to have some background of the philosophy behind the 5x5s before deciding how to set one up for yourself.
 
Since I'm still a beginner, I was turned on to Rippetoe's 3x5 training, and I really like it. It uses the same lifts as my HST workout, split into two days. After warming up, you do 3x5 squat, Military press, and Rows, then the next workout, squat, Dead lift (only 1x5), and bench press. You throw in chin ups, dips, situps, etc as accessory exercises, but only focus on building the main 5 lifts. A once per week increase is considered normal, I guess, but you really end up increasing what you can, when you can. I'm only starting my fourth week, but every thing is up ... a little in upper body, a lot (for me) in lower body.

Coming off of an HST cycle, I didn't bother starting light, and working up to my 5 RM. I figure that progression had already been accomplished. So I started the 3x5 right at my 5rm.
 
Yeah 5x5 is just a way of doing a lot of volume with a really heavy weight. I would recommend 3x5 for people who are not serious about powerlifting/strength gains. (or are beginners/unaccustomed to heavy loads...)
 
Have to disagree with Peak somewhat. I do agree that 3x5 is good. After all, Pendlay, Rippetoe, and Kilgore are all colleagues/associates.

There are various 5x5s, and the programs usually known as &quot;5x5&quot; are about more than just 5 sets of 5, just as HST is not just about doing sets of 15, 10, and 5. In fact, you can have pyramided sets of 5, 5 sets of the same weight, or a combination. Sometimes 5x5 programs also use sets of 3 and/or 8.

According to Pendlay (see that link), what is best depends on the trainee's individual needs and experience levels. That might be the Rippetoe 3x5 or some variant of the 5x5.

The focus tends to be on strength gains, but it's not any more strength-specific than a 3x5. It is NOT a powerlifting program per se. A powerlifting routine would likely be a lot different, though a 5x5 style program might be used in off-season work by a power lifter just like other athletes who want to add muscle mass and power.
 
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