A/B workouts? or one workout?

K

killroy70

New Member
I've returned to HST after a year and a half away. In my past experience with HST, which consisted of 3 or 4 eight week cycles, I would perform an 8 week cycle, have some great gains, and in the following cycle would fizzle out in both growth and especially strength. For the past 6 months I've been using various high frequency programs outlined by Chad waterbury with some success. So...I decided to come back to hypertrophy-specific.com to read up on it again.

Well, I downloaded and printed out the HST FAQ and the PIMP HST articles and have learned A LOT. I believe I've gained a much greater understanding of the philosophy and perhaps why, after a tremendous 8 week cycle, my gains would come to a screeching halt thereafter.

So, with renewed enthusiasm, mainly coming from actually UNDERSTANDING why this system works, I'm back.

Now, my questions:

1) what are some members thoughts on one workout vs. an A/B alternating workout scheme?
example:
A
squat
glute ham raise
dips
chins
standing overhead press
hammer curls
flat barbell tri extensions
decline reverse crunch

B
Trap bar deadlift
incline bench press
incline/chest supported barbell rows
dumbbell upright rows (to mid chest)
rear delt raises
decline DB tri extensions
barbell curls
cable crunch

2) Also, and perhaps more importantly for me, what are members thoughts on performing this routine 3 days/wk (mon-wed-fri) vs. 6 days/wk?

I have a pretty high work capacity, as I have been performing up to 6 full body workouts within the past 3 months. those workouts were spread out over 4 days (monx2, tues, thurs, frix2)
This was a Waterbury program. Gains were very good, but about 6 weeks in, I crashed. The reason for the "crash" was that I the program called for an undulating periodization rep scheme (3x12 one workout, the next 4x6, etc.) and each workout the weights prescribed were, say, your 14RM for the 12 rep sets and your 8RM for the 6 rep sets.

So, weight progression became difficult constantly lifting at this intensity that many times/wk.

So, to sum up, would members recommend:
1) use one routine 3x/wk
2) use an A/B scheme, alternating 3x/wk
3) use an A/B scheme, alternating 6x/wk

any help would be greatly appreciated.

just fyi:
I'm 27 years old
205lbs
~11% bf
bench max 250
squat max 345
Trap bar dead max 435
 
Hmmm ultimately I think it would come down to your goals and some other factors.

Timewise, one routine 3x a week would be most beneficial.

For the most hypertrophic response, i'm not too sure which is better. Since protein synthesis occurs for 48 hours after a workout, 3x a week would suffice given that you eat enough calories to compensate.

I believe higher frequency like 6x or 12x a week workout is geared towards cutting since you'll be burning a ton more calories while still being able to eat at maitenance. However, if you choose to do higher frequency, i'd recommend upping your caloric intake higher than your intake from doing workouts 3x a week.

Also consider the volume you'll need to manage at higher frequency; you're not going to want to do the same amount of sets for 12x a week vs 3x a week. I'm pretty sure you've read about clustering, you might want to use that if you feel like you're getting burned out by the 5th, 6th week or so.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">

I would perform an 8 week cycle, have some great gains, and in the following cycle would fizzle out in both growth and especially strength.</div>

IMO that could have been from a number of things, like not eating enough the next cycle (you're burning a bit more calories than your last cycle since you gained lbm). You might not have sd'd long enough, etc etc. When I start getting burned out, I usually just lower the volume, and if I feel like i'm not gaining, i'll up my caloric intake a bit more.

Hope that helps
smile.gif
 
Good post, tetrah. I agree. If you go to higher frequency, you'll need a lot more calories to grow. I couldn't grow on more than 4 times a week, my calorie needs went too high. Remember, if you aren't gaining weight, don't blame the program. Blame yourself for not eating enough. No matter how much you lift, weight doesn't magically pack on. Like tetrah mentioned, as you gain more weight, you'll need to adjust your calorie intake upward to account for the raise in caloric needs that accompanies more mass.

As for alternating... I think alternating is okay, I'm experimenting with A workouts Mon and Fri, B workouts on Weds. It's not a big deal though. For simplicity, you could just pick a simple workout and do that 3 times a week. Really, there is no magic to it. Just pick some compounds, do it frequently enough and make sure to eat big. Guys worry too much about their routines, when really pretty much any routine is okay as long as it isn't too retarded (example: lunges as your main leg movement is probably a bad idea)
 
Thanks for the quick replies!

You both brought up a very valid point - my gains from my first 8 week cycle were excellent - strenght was up dramatically and I gained around 5 lbs LBM (extremely good for me over such as short period).

In the follow up cycle, I did not alter my nutrtion. Calories stayed pretty much constant. That's one of several areas where I most likely erred.

There is absolutely no blaming the program here, I have not experienced gains even remotely close to what I did a year and a half ago in any of the other programs I've used.

Previously, I also stuck to one workout, 3x/wk. I'm thinking about going with the A/B scheme 3x/wk and see how it goes. Looking at my past logs, I noticed that I probably had too many exercises jammed into my one workout, perhaps splitting them up will help out.

Thanks again
 
as the guys say eat more..3x a wk alternating is cool this means (if you want) you could extend the cycle to say 12wks or more ..or make bigger increments each workout.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking about trying to push myself to make larger increments. Though one question I had after looking at an A/B type workout scheme in the HST training article is that it appears, based on the listed maxes for the sample exercises used, that each exercise was maxed out.

Bascially - it looks like at the end of each 2 week block, one has 2 &quot;max out&quot; days, one for each of the alternating exercises. This is one thing I was unsure of - whether I should try to ramp up the intensity and only max out on the last day, or to max out, say, my A workout execises on wednesday of the 2nd week and B exercises on the Friday of that week.

Any comments on this? I can't really see anyway around this, as if someone only wanted to max out on the last day of each 2 week block and was working an alternating workout scheme (A/B), one of those workouts would never be taken to 100% intensity of the specified rep scheme.

Right now, targeting my A exercises to be maxed out on the wednesday of the last week of each block and the B exercises on the Friday of that same week. We'll see how it goes.

any feedback always appreciated.
 
I think the most important thing is to try not to hit failure while you are maxing out. You could try lowering your max reps a bit so that you are near your max instead of hitting your max on the last days.

You could also try and do clustering (10's and 5's only) to control your fatigue. Then again, I wouldn't worry too much if you hit cns failure while trying to hit your max. Once every two weeks shouldn't be enough to drain you (if you're getting enough sleep).
 
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