Advice on re-starting HST

B

bluze

New Member
I did HST a couple of years ago and got great results. However, life took over my workout time and I've added about 30lbs of couch potato (more like eating out, getting married and having a child). I finally have my life back to the point where I can workout again. So which approach would you reccomend (and why)?

My options are...

1. Since beginners make the best gains, should I be bulking to max out hypertrophy before cutting (and then alternate cutting cycles with bulking ones)?

2. Cut first to optimal BF% and then start bulking?

3. Do a cyclical routine of straight HST (say MWF) with a zig zag diet approach of 3 days maintenance/3 days cut. Theoretically I should be able to strip fat and gain some muscle at the same time. But how effective would that be vs the other options and how long would you do that for? I would actually eat at maintenance for this and do cardio to alter calories for my 'cut' days.

Question is...which approach will get me back in shape the fastest with the most muscle?

Any advice and comments are welcome and encouraged.

I'm not a beginner, but have only come from this approach once before when I did an all out cut and dropped 30lbs in 3 1/2 months with eating maintenance, lifting 3x per week but doing cardio once on lift days and twice on off days. Crazy I know, but it worked well for the first 2 months but then I started stripping too much muscle. So I'm looking for some sound advice from the 'experts' of this board.

Sincerely,
Greg
 
Well, I'm not an expert but I'll state my opinion anyway for what it's worth. First of all, it all depends on how you feel about your body and your appearance. Would you accept a little bit more bodyfat or you want to get leaner now?

I like to stay relatively lean all year around, so if I were you I would first cut to an appropriate bodyfat percentage and take it from there. Also, since you are not really an absolute beginner, I wouldn't count too much on losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. I don't say that it won't happen (actually it is quite probable since you are carrying 30 lbs of extra weight), but personally I wouldn't rely on that.

So, I would suggest that you cut first until you are comfortable with your BF% and then start bulking. Do standard HST 3 times a week with cardio on off days and eat a little below maintenance.

Option #3 is quite similar to #2, but as I see it, it would only take a longer time to accomplish the goal of #2 (that is to cut). Strip the fat first, and then try to gain new muscle. Anyway, in the end it's your decision.
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Good luck,
Dimitris
 
Great questions Greg.

Dimitris is right though...we can give opinions till our finger tips hurt from typing...but you are the captain of your own ship!
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My honest opinion is that approach 2 seems the best, however I sometimes believe that staying at maintenance while adapting your body to the changes imposed could get you to a good place!

This is because right now your maintenance levels do not include exercise and therefore if your throw it into the equation you basically are doing a bit of a cut if you get my drift as you would be using more energy than before but are not compensating by eating more.
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So if you do the above and after a cycle you are happy you can then decide where to from there! Personally I don't really like to bulk too much but that too is to my detriment as growth comes slowly!
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Maybe one day I willl convince myself that it is the way to go!

Hope the rambling helps!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is because right now your maintenance levels do not include exercise and therefore if your throw it into the equation you basically are doing a bit of a cut if you get my drift as you would be using more energy than before but are not compensating by eating more.</div>
Well, it all depends on how you calculate your maintenance levels (in other words if you take exercise into account or not). If one defines &quot;maintenance levels&quot; as maintenance for sedentary people, then exercise will definitely create a calorie deficit and in the long run it will help weight loss. So, basically we are saying the same thing.
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Cheers,
Dimitris
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well, it all depends on how you calculate your maintenance levels (in other words if you take exercise into account or not). If one defines &quot;maintenance levels&quot; as maintenance for sedentary people, then exercise will definitely create a calorie deficit and in the long run it will help weight loss.</div>

Dimitris, I mean't just that, his current maintenance is basically sedentary so...it figures to try out the approach...and yep we are saying the same thing!
 
Thanks guys!

I had asked this question (out of curiosity) to Bryan when I first joined (2004) and he said to cut first.

However, I wanted to see what current opinions were.

All comments and ramblings are very much appreciated - which is why I love this board. A lot of people trying to help each other.

Thanks for the advice!

Anyone else have a similar or different opinion?

Sincerely,
Greg
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I pretty much agree with 9to5. I would cut down first, concentrate on maintaining strength in the core lifts and cutting calories, doing cardio on the off-days, etc. You'll probably have to do it for a couple cycles, then spend a bit of time at maintenance to get the metabolism back up to par before bulking.
 
Cut for a while
Maintenance for a bit
then bulk

It looks like 2006 has turned into the year of the cut for me as I have one more cutting cycle to get to my goal!

Goal - 200 at 8%
Currently - 204 at 11.5%

I am upping the cardio, frequency, protein intake, and EFA's for this fall.
 
This may not be the fastest way but it is the best in my opinion and you won't be yoyoing. Diet down to a respectable bodyfat %...say 12%...via a low carb diet. Then do a slow bulk with about 300-500 calories over maintainance emphasizing protein and good fats. Limit carbs to complex type and forego all sugary carbs and transfats.
 
I agree with O&amp;G, but I would cut down to at least under 10%. It all depends on what you think is a good lean shape - do you want a full 6 pack or not is the question.
 
Wow! Thanks for so many responses!!!

Question O &amp; G, are you suggesting 300-500 per week or per day. The words slow bulk sounds like per week...?

Also, what routine are you using (basic HST) and when do you do cardio (and what type)?

It's an interesting concept to cut to 10% and slowly add weight, but do you still do cardio or is it not needed?

Sounds like you don't like the yo-yo of cut/bulk/cut/bulk. Assuming you've tried both ways, have you made any comparisons to the yo-yo vs slow bulk? If not, what kind of results are you seeing using this method?

Also, do you ever change it up or do you just stick with this?

Sorry for the large number of questions...but I don't turn down opportunities to learn from your experience.

Sincerely,
Greg
 
Bluze,

As to your questions (without repeating them):

About 300 calories over per Day.

My current 3 to 4 times per week program is:

Incline Press
Dips
Military Press
Shrugs behind back
Chins
Seated rows
Close grip bench press
BB curls
Squats
Leg extensions

! set of 15's...1 week
1 set of 10's followed by a drop set of 10...2 weeks
1 set of 5's followed by 2 drop sets of 5 each...3-4 weeks

I do cardio from time-to-time but I raise horses so I do a lot of aerobic type work anyway.

I have done the yoyo thing many years ago. I stopped because I read that it was tough on some of your internal organs such as the heart, liver and kidneys, although I am not sure that that was ever proven medically to everyone's satisfaction.

I end up changing my program somewhat each cycle. I really liked a short workout I did 6 times per week but it was too exhausting for these old bones. Now I stick somewhat to every other day. My diet does not change much although I am eating closer to maintainence now. At 5&quot;8&quot;. 185 and 9 % body fat, I am not looking to put a lot more load on my heart.

By the way, I agree with Colby on the 10% but I didn't want to throw out a number that might scare you away.
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Good luck.
 
<div>
(bluze @ Aug. 17 2006,22:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">are you suggesting 300-500 per week or per day. The words slow bulk sounds like per week...?</div>
are you really think you can in long term control exess of 300 kcal spread over the week ?
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that mean ~43 kcal more a day lot living in vacuum
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I don't think it is doable
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ZMT,

I was just asking for clarification of what O &amp; G was doing.


O &amp; G,

Thanks very much for the useful responses! A few more questions for you though (if you don't mind)...

1) How come you put squats and leg ext's last?

2) I've seen you write that leg curls are bad for the knees...could you explain this a little?

My planned routine is...

Squat
Leg Curls
Chins
Bench
Dips
Rows
Arnold Press
Curls
Tri Ext
Ab work

Comments or suggestions?

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Greg
 
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