Alternate exercises?

B

bobpit

New Member
I am preparing for my first HST cycle and I need to ask this:

HST declares that you do not need to alternate exercises to "confuse" the muscles. But on [http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_notes.html], the sample program suggests alternating in every other workout BenchPress with Dips and Rows with Chinups. Why is that?

According to the FAQ, it is better to keep the movement constant, so that there is better neural efficiency, so that more tention is generated and more microtrauma caused. So what is correct?

One more thing. My 5RM for DeadLift is 125 kgr. I estimate that my 15RM is 85 kgr. So the first 2 weeks I will do 15x60, 15x65, 15x70, 15x75, 15x80, 15x85. but 60 kgr is less than 50% of my 1RM. How can this cause any hypertrophy or stimulate my muscles at all?
 
Using two exersizes for the same muscle in a high frequency program like HST isn't the same as someone switching around with the outdated, unsuccessful 'confusion' principle. I'm sure the fella here at the round table can expound further on that; I'm not qualified.
I agree with you on the starting weight for deads as 'seeming' light, but let's not forget that your 1rm is about 140, according to http://www.health-calc.com/content/view/13/30/ which makes your expected 15 rm 85.9 kg. - right on target. But multiply 60x85 and you'll see why after a deload, you can grow. You're doing 900 kg. of work , for a set, which is what causes microtrauma in a deconditioned muscle, as I understand it.
But you may not grow from the 15's, some people don't. There are many other things happening in the higher reps besides trauma. Mitochondrial growth, lactic acid healing of joints (I can attest to that), neural conditioning in the slow twitch muscle fibers, etc.
 
Yeah, agree with Quad. Think of the 15s as a deload from the heavy work you will have been doing in the previous cycle and as prep work for the heavy stuff to come later. Your CNS can stay pretty fresh during the 15s but, even so, by the end of the 15s you will be doing a fair bit of work. 15 rep deads and squats get pretty darn tough when you are strong (ask Steve Jones and Liege).

If you have SDed properly they will probably not feel easy even during the first week. However, you can always do more reps to get a good burn in the working muscles. I often do 25 reps the first week as long as I stay away from failure.

Starting a cycle at about 50-60% of your 1RM is about right. My numbers come out nearer to 60% for my starting loads. Another way to do a quick calc is to take 75% of your RM load as a starting point for each mesocycle and then go with a weight that is near to that and is easy to load on the bar
 
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(Lol @ Mar. 20 2007,11:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Starting a cycle at about 50-60% of your 1RM is about right. My numbers come out nearer to 60% for my starting loads.</div>
Well, 60 kgr from 140 kgr 1RM is about 43%. So I am starting my cycle at 43% of my 1RM. This is my concern.
 
If your 1RM is 140kgs then, if I were you, I would start at 70kgs and build from there. It's perfectly fine to repeat loads for a few sessions if that makes working out the increments easier. So you could do 70,70,75,75,80,85 for the 15s.
 
OK, for the 15s, I do sets of 70,70,75,75,80,85.

Now my 10RM is 105 kgr. So the sets come out: 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105. So the first set (10x80) is at a lower weight from the last set (15x85).

Isn't this against the HST rules?

Where can I find a real HST schedule. From the 1st set of 15s, all the way to the last set of negatives?
 
That lower weight is going to give you a break (deload) from the maxed out 15's, and allow some recuperation without losing strength or conditioning.
Sorry guy, but it begins to sound like you haven't read the HST articles - a MUST for anyone posting questions here. We love to help but it gets redundant always answering questions that are answered in the articles that should be read and understood before doing a cycle.
If you're a longtime lifter and in good shape, you could do HST in a linear progression. I had a thread on mine in here, where most questions would be answered on that.
Brian was very careful to put all the information in the articles so as to make a new concept clear with all the science backing it up. Thousands of us agree.
 
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(quadancer @ Mar. 20 2007,14:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">it begins to sound like you haven't read the HST articles</div>
Yes, I just read in the FAQ that it is ok to Zig-Zag the weights.

I was just wondering because it's against the HST concept of the ever increasing resistance.

I appreciate your help.
 
I'm still pretty new at this but if you are doing 1 set of 15's and two sets of 10's you're still increasing the load and the work the muscle is doing.

85 x 15 = 1275kg
2 x 80 x 10 = 1600kg

Make sense? I found with setting up my second cycle, calculate the work I'm doing each workout helped a lot for the increments.
 
There ya go man! And if you wanna do something REALLY fun, calculate all your totals, add them up and see your workout TONNAGE!

I like it when I see a 27-30 ton workout. I dunno, it just makes ya feel good.
 
Even if your work done dropped off a bit because of zig-zag that's not a problem. Zig-zagging is a really useful way to allow your body a bit more time to recover from the CNS fatiguing RM workout of the previous week before you raise the bar (
biggrin.gif
) again and push towards the next RM workout.

Don't think that you have to increase everything every workout or you're gonna fail. Think more in terms of progression over the whole cycle. Keep those RMs going up each cycle and you will be pleased with your results.
 
Wouldnt it be a benefit to have 2 excercises for everything rather than just the 1 we keep repeating?

This is just a theory so I want other peoples thoughts.

When someone changes excercise after a long period of time, the CNS needs to adapt to the movement because it is not conditioned to it. We know our muscle growth is somewhat limited by our CNS and the fatigue it gets over time, hence the sub max weights.
So wouldnt there be less CNS fatigue over time with alternating exercises from workout to workout?

This isnt about confusing the muscles, but about not putting the CNS through the same stress each workout but instead each consecutive workout, while maintaining the same trauma on the targeted muscle.
Alternating Pec deck with Bench press in theory shouldnt be as taxing as doing just the one excercise.
 
Last edited:
MaFi0s0 said:
So wouldnt there be less CNS fatigue over time with alternating exercises from workout to workout?

QUOTE]
maybe if we were working closer to faliure every session,but in HST alot of the time you are not,your also forgeting that neural learning is a major factor in training your CNS which is why oly-pl-lifters do alot of the same lifts but heavy/light
BTW you do realise this threads 3yrs old ;):cool:
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