So about a year and a half ago i completed 3 "vanilla" hst cycles using the 15/10/5 format and had good experiences with it. For the last year or so i've been doing madcow to get my lifts up about but now what to focus a little more on hypertrophy. Just wondering if anyone's ever used a 12/8/5 rep scheme or a 12/9/6 rep scheme and what their experiences were...if i did the following i would probably do 12x1.5 (one set of 12 and then myoreps to a total of 18 reps), 8/9x2 and 5/6x3.
anybody try a 12/8/5 or 12/9/6 rep scheme?
- Thread starter waray214
- Start date
The short answer to your question is that, yes, what you propose is viable and I am using it now. The longer answer is the copy pasted below of a slightly modified PM I sent to another lifter but addresses what you are asking:
I am actually doing an ABC workout with with weekly undulating reps rather than 2 weeks of 15's etc because there has been some science recently that estimated about a 15% advantage of undulating reps instead of straight periodization programs. I do a minimum of 3 total body workouts per week but strive to get 5. I usually end up with 4 times per week due to life getting in the way.
I am using 12, 8 and 5 reps this cycle because I use a Physio Step machine pretty regularly at least 2-3 times per week and that keeps my joints and soft tissues in good shape. So I now keep my workouts in the perceived "muscle and strength building" rep range and am skipping the 15's.
The first workout is at 12 reps and consists of one activation set at 12 reps and 3 myo sets of 4 myo reps each spaced no more than 10 seconds apart:
Weighted dips
Face pulls
Triceps pushdowns
Leg Press
Weighted neutral grip chin ups
Concentration curls
The second workout is at 8 reps and consists of one activation set at 8 reps and 4 myo sets of 2 myo reps each spaced no more than 10 seconds apart:
Flat bench press
Shoulder shrugs and external rotations
Close grip bench press
Leg Extensions (But at 15 reps and 5 myo sets of 5 myo reps)
Seated lat pull followed by lat pull downs
Hammer curls
The third workout is at 5 reps and consists of one activation set at 5 reps and 5 myo sets of 1 myo rep each spaced no more than 15 seconds apart:
Incline bench press
Lateral raises
Close grip bench press
Leg extensions (But at 15 reps and 5 myo sets of 5 reps)
Heavily weighted neutral grip chin ups
Seated DB curls
I do not do squats or deads anymore due to back surgery (congenital stenosis) and my legs respond better to higher reps anyway. They are not huge but very defined which is my preference. I never wanted legs to look like Tom Platz but more like Frank Zane.
The way I have it set up, it "feels" like I am getting 4 effective sets of 12 reps, 5 effective sets of 8 reps and 6 effective sets of 5 reps on those three workout days without all the "wasted" reps getting to a point of active reps. (The extra reps are not really wasted; just not very "effective" at muscle building in my opinion. Obviously many would disagree but this has been my personal non-scientific experience.) After I have finished the week's minimum quota of those 3 workouts, I start out all over again when ever my next workout is; whether it be the next day or the rest week with 12 reps.
I actually split it between a morning and afternoon session and each session takes no more than 20 minutes (40 minutes per day) so I remain fresh.
I use a progressive load approach and use frequent SD's so the earlier workouts are pretty easy but the last two weeks or so are tough. Depending on how many average weekly workouts I have managed to get in, I may need a week's SD after only 4 weeks or, at the most, 6 weeks. (If I continue past 4 weeks I am obviously working at or near my rep max.) But I am also 68+ and a young guy could probably keep this routine up for several months straight because it is not as exhausting on the CNS as some other full rep or close to rep max routines.
On the 5's I would say I am doing more of an accelerated Max Stim type workout rather than myo reps since they are really designed for reps greater than 8. I say accelerated max stim because I do not go through the motions of doing multiple single sets up front before you actually hit full muscle activation. I get to the activation point on the first set and then continue it with the subsequent single reps.
So far, this is the best workout that I have used in in 55 years of training. It probably is not for everyone but it fits my current needs and goals.
I also may do extra sets of 5 rep very slow body weight neutral grip chin ups throughout the day as I have a chin bar in my office room. My lats need a lot of volume.
I am actually doing an ABC workout with with weekly undulating reps rather than 2 weeks of 15's etc because there has been some science recently that estimated about a 15% advantage of undulating reps instead of straight periodization programs. I do a minimum of 3 total body workouts per week but strive to get 5. I usually end up with 4 times per week due to life getting in the way.
I am using 12, 8 and 5 reps this cycle because I use a Physio Step machine pretty regularly at least 2-3 times per week and that keeps my joints and soft tissues in good shape. So I now keep my workouts in the perceived "muscle and strength building" rep range and am skipping the 15's.
The first workout is at 12 reps and consists of one activation set at 12 reps and 3 myo sets of 4 myo reps each spaced no more than 10 seconds apart:
Weighted dips
Face pulls
Triceps pushdowns
Leg Press
Weighted neutral grip chin ups
Concentration curls
The second workout is at 8 reps and consists of one activation set at 8 reps and 4 myo sets of 2 myo reps each spaced no more than 10 seconds apart:
Flat bench press
Shoulder shrugs and external rotations
Close grip bench press
Leg Extensions (But at 15 reps and 5 myo sets of 5 myo reps)
Seated lat pull followed by lat pull downs
Hammer curls
The third workout is at 5 reps and consists of one activation set at 5 reps and 5 myo sets of 1 myo rep each spaced no more than 15 seconds apart:
Incline bench press
Lateral raises
Close grip bench press
Leg extensions (But at 15 reps and 5 myo sets of 5 reps)
Heavily weighted neutral grip chin ups
Seated DB curls
I do not do squats or deads anymore due to back surgery (congenital stenosis) and my legs respond better to higher reps anyway. They are not huge but very defined which is my preference. I never wanted legs to look like Tom Platz but more like Frank Zane.
The way I have it set up, it "feels" like I am getting 4 effective sets of 12 reps, 5 effective sets of 8 reps and 6 effective sets of 5 reps on those three workout days without all the "wasted" reps getting to a point of active reps. (The extra reps are not really wasted; just not very "effective" at muscle building in my opinion. Obviously many would disagree but this has been my personal non-scientific experience.) After I have finished the week's minimum quota of those 3 workouts, I start out all over again when ever my next workout is; whether it be the next day or the rest week with 12 reps.
I actually split it between a morning and afternoon session and each session takes no more than 20 minutes (40 minutes per day) so I remain fresh.
I use a progressive load approach and use frequent SD's so the earlier workouts are pretty easy but the last two weeks or so are tough. Depending on how many average weekly workouts I have managed to get in, I may need a week's SD after only 4 weeks or, at the most, 6 weeks. (If I continue past 4 weeks I am obviously working at or near my rep max.) But I am also 68+ and a young guy could probably keep this routine up for several months straight because it is not as exhausting on the CNS as some other full rep or close to rep max routines.
On the 5's I would say I am doing more of an accelerated Max Stim type workout rather than myo reps since they are really designed for reps greater than 8. I say accelerated max stim because I do not go through the motions of doing multiple single sets up front before you actually hit full muscle activation. I get to the activation point on the first set and then continue it with the subsequent single reps.
So far, this is the best workout that I have used in in 55 years of training. It probably is not for everyone but it fits my current needs and goals.
I also may do extra sets of 5 rep very slow body weight neutral grip chin ups throughout the day as I have a chin bar in my office room. My lats need a lot of volume.
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Old and grey thanks for your reply. I am very intrigued with your training routine. I actually have extensive experience with myoreps. It used to be my training style of choice about 2 years ago. I noticed you don't have any horizontal pulling movements I.e. Rows and very little shoulder work in your program...any specific reasoning for this? How would I go about adding squats and deads into this routine? My legs are also disproportionately large and I also have slight lower back issues so I don't need much leg training. Do you rotate exercises week by week throughout the different reps schemes such as Monday week 1 dips 12 reps plus myoreps then week 2 Monday would be flat bbell bench 12 plus myo and so on?
How does this routine look under your guidelines? Also how do you work progression into your cycle?
Monday 12 reps + myo
Squat
Chest dips
Face pulley rows
Lateral raises
Pull ups
Preacher curls
Skull rushers
Wednesday 8 reps plus myo
Dbell incline press
T- bar rows
Db shoulder press
Pull-ups
Bbell curls
Close grip bench
Reverse flyes
Friday 5 reps
Deadlifts
Flat bbell bench
Pendlay rows
Military press
Shrugs? Not sure where to stick these
How does this routine look under your guidelines? Also how do you work progression into your cycle?
Monday 12 reps + myo
Squat
Chest dips
Face pulley rows
Lateral raises
Pull ups
Preacher curls
Skull rushers
Wednesday 8 reps plus myo
Dbell incline press
T- bar rows
Db shoulder press
Pull-ups
Bbell curls
Close grip bench
Reverse flyes
Friday 5 reps
Deadlifts
Flat bbell bench
Pendlay rows
Military press
Shrugs? Not sure where to stick these
Ok you got me thinking...what about a routine like such. It would be 3 workouts out a week ABC.
Monday Workout A 1x12 + 3 + 3 (myoreps) total reps=18
Squats
Inc db bench
High pulley rows
Cable lateral raises
Pull ups
Preacher curls
Skullcrushers
Wednesday Workout B 2x9 no myoreps total reps= 18
Chest dips
T bar rows
Db shoulder press
Pull ups
Rear delt flyes
Bb curls
Close grip bench
Friday Workout C 3x6 no myoreps total reps= 18
Deadlifts...maybe only 1/2x6 because very taxing
Bb inc bench
Pendlay rows
Upright rows or military press
Bb shrugs
Progression
Week 1= 75% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 2= 80% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 3= 85% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 4= 90% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 5= 95% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 6= 100% of 12/9/6 rm
Notes: I have inc bench in there twice because upper chest is a big weakness of mine. Both inclines would be 15-30 degree incline. I also want to improve medial delts so I added upright rows for a little more emphasis on that area. Also have really week rear delts so high pulley rows plus rear delt flyes for that
Monday Workout A 1x12 + 3 + 3 (myoreps) total reps=18
Squats
Inc db bench
High pulley rows
Cable lateral raises
Pull ups
Preacher curls
Skullcrushers
Wednesday Workout B 2x9 no myoreps total reps= 18
Chest dips
T bar rows
Db shoulder press
Pull ups
Rear delt flyes
Bb curls
Close grip bench
Friday Workout C 3x6 no myoreps total reps= 18
Deadlifts...maybe only 1/2x6 because very taxing
Bb inc bench
Pendlay rows
Upright rows or military press
Bb shrugs
Progression
Week 1= 75% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 2= 80% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 3= 85% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 4= 90% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 5= 95% of 12/9/6 rm
Week 6= 100% of 12/9/6 rm
Notes: I have inc bench in there twice because upper chest is a big weakness of mine. Both inclines would be 15-30 degree incline. I also want to improve medial delts so I added upright rows for a little more emphasis on that area. Also have really week rear delts so high pulley rows plus rear delt flyes for that
Wawary
My horizontal pulling exercises include face pulls. done in a seated position using the low cable row machine, and seated lat rows. In general, though, I prefer vertical pulls due to a lower back fusion.
I usually have military presses in my routine twice per week but am taking a break from it this cycle. My shoulder routine this cycle is designed more to hit the shoulder stabilizing muscles to balance things out.
I think your program and exercise and rep choices are good. I cannot comment on volume as I do not know what kind of condition or state of body building you are in and sets/reps is very dependent on that.
I change exercises up only when changing cycles, not during a cycle, and even then it may be every other or every third cycle. I like to get some neural adaptation on my exercises to help increase the amount of weight I can lift. You have to get strong to get big.
For legs, I stick to leg extensions and leg presses because of my back issue. Despite many nay sayers out there, leg extensions can be a very effective leg isolation exercise if you need to avoid risking back issues. Without that issue I would still be doing squats and deads. Normally not a problem for most people but I do not want to bend the rods inserted in my spine.
I do not do a week of 12's then a week of 8's, etc. I do a day of 12's then my next workout is a day of 8's etc.
I would say to go for it and let us know how it works for you.
O&G
My horizontal pulling exercises include face pulls. done in a seated position using the low cable row machine, and seated lat rows. In general, though, I prefer vertical pulls due to a lower back fusion.
I usually have military presses in my routine twice per week but am taking a break from it this cycle. My shoulder routine this cycle is designed more to hit the shoulder stabilizing muscles to balance things out.
I think your program and exercise and rep choices are good. I cannot comment on volume as I do not know what kind of condition or state of body building you are in and sets/reps is very dependent on that.
I change exercises up only when changing cycles, not during a cycle, and even then it may be every other or every third cycle. I like to get some neural adaptation on my exercises to help increase the amount of weight I can lift. You have to get strong to get big.
For legs, I stick to leg extensions and leg presses because of my back issue. Despite many nay sayers out there, leg extensions can be a very effective leg isolation exercise if you need to avoid risking back issues. Without that issue I would still be doing squats and deads. Normally not a problem for most people but I do not want to bend the rods inserted in my spine.
I do not do a week of 12's then a week of 8's, etc. I do a day of 12's then my next workout is a day of 8's etc.
I would say to go for it and let us know how it works for you.
O&G
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