Bench/Dips and Chins/Rows

M

MichaelKies

New Member
Guys,

Is it over kill to be doing bench AND dips and Chins AND rows on the same day? Brian says he does both, but the sample HST program shows them being alternated every other workout. Ive ran my previous HST cycles doing both, but Ive been reading the "simplify and win" threads and am starting to feel like Im doing too much. Im NOT a newbie lifter, 40 years old, 6'2, 195.

Now, if I DO alternate how should I go about it since I'd be skipping one of the days from each and only hitting my max for ONE of the two excersises?

For example, if on the 10's my bench schedule for two weeks would be:
150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200
and for weighted dips:
30,40,50,60,70,80

would I do 150bench, 40dips, 170bench, 60dips, 190bench, 80 dips? Or??

By the way, here is my current routine:

Squat
Bench
SL Deads
Dips
Chins
Military press
Rows
Skull crushers
Shrugs
Curls
Calves

Thanks guys, appreciate the tweak help!!
~M
 
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(MichaelKies @ Dec. 22 2008,3:03)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">  Now, if I DO alternate how should I go about it since I'd be skipping one of the days from each and only hitting my max for ONE of the two excersises?

For example, if on the 10's my bench schedule for two weeks would be:
150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200
and for weighted dips:
30,40,50,60,70,80

would I do 150bench, 40dips, 170bench, 60dips, 190bench, 80 dips? Or??</div>
Yeah, if you alternate, I would basically agree this is the way to go.  Start out at roughly 70% of your 10 RM and progress evenly up to 10 RM.   The range on your dips seems pretty wide, which suggests that your increments are too large.

Doing bench and dips on the same day is really dependent on your volume.  In my case, I can manage it pretty well up until the 5's, at which point my shoulders get pretty abused.
 
Thanks for the help Omega.

Regarding my dips range, that WOULD be my 70% range (or 10 lb increments), the increments only appear to be too large because of the alternating. Which was the reason I had the question to begin with. If Im alternating every other workout doing dips, then my increments will jump 20lbs instead of 10. Should I adjust??

What about alternating the rows and chins? Do you do both on the same day??

Anyone else have any suggestions?
 
Michael,

A few thoughts:

Adding 10lb per session is fine but just in case you wanted to take a %age approach to increments, 75% to 100% RM in 5% increments for each mesocycle works pretty well.

If I do a few quick calcs with your loads, incrementing from 30 to 80lb for 10s, that would make your 10RM equal to 200lb including your body weight, right? (I'm assuming you are incrementing in 5% steps from 75% to 100% of your 10RM and that your bw doesn't change over the mesocycle.) That would make your body weight around 120lb. My guess is that this is a a little on the light side?

Say your body weight was 185 and your 10RM was bw+80lb, then your loading scheme for 10s might be something like:

15, 25, 40, 55, 65, 80

which would take you from 200lb (~75%) to 265lb (100%) for 10s. That's actually a wider range than you have. But, of course, your bw may actually be 120, in which case you are spot on.
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None of that really matters though. Your 10lb increments will work just fine but at least you can see a pretty useful way to calculate increments in steps of 5% of RM for any mesocyle.

I actually favour just one max workout each mesocycle so I wouldn't worry about trying to max both dips and bench for 10s if I was alternating between them. So, if you max bench for 10s this cycle, you can max dips for 10s next cycle by swapping the order. Once you are in the 5s you will get to the point where you hit your 5RM for both exercises and then you'll be using those loads for a few weeks. Load progression over the whole cycle is what matters more than hitting any particular RM along the way.
 
Thanks Lol!!

So, do you recommend alternating bench and dips (and also chins and rows) OR (as Omega suggested) do them both if my body is allowing me to? Like I said, I've been doing them both and seem to be ok, I was just reading the Simplify and Win threads (thanks to you) and started second guessing.
 
Michael, my applogies. I totally excluded any proportion of bodyweight in your dip increments, I actually don't follow the 70% rule on dips b/c that would put me at a starting point under my BW for 15's and 10's. Otherwise, I stick pretty close to the rule.

If you wanted, you can still hit RMs for both exercises using an alternating routine. Simply work backwards from each exercise's RM. You will just use larger increments since you are doing each exercise 3 vs. 6 times.

The way I handle two exercises per bodypart (vs. one) is to reduce sets per exercise while keeping total volume per bodypart comparable. Otherwise, I stick close to 4-5 exercises per routine, a la Simplify and Win. I like the variety to keep me motivated.

The bottom line is to do what motivates you, experiment a little, track your results, and let your body tell you what works best for you.
 
Perfect! Thanks Omega. Im trying to keep in mind that as long as Im progressive loading, thats all that matters. And yes, Im doing as you just suggested in just using larger increments to accomodate the less frequency. I actually just started my 15's this week after a 9 day SD, and Im alternating dips/bench and chins/rows for the first time (Ive done about 4 HST cycles). So far, I think the reduction in excercises IS helping me, Ive had a bit more energy toward the end of the workout. Im anxious to see the difference toward the end of the 5's. Im trying to mentally get over the fact that Im NOT benching as much (Ive always been the bench-a-holic!
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