Calves

[imported_etothepii]

Tomorrow will be the last workout in the 5s for me, and there is absolutely no growth in my calves. In my first cycle I had 1/8 inch of growth. I've read about the difference in muscle fibers in the calves, so I understand why they take so long to grow, but I'm wondering if it's even worth working them.

I work out at home and have no aparatus for calves. I have a lot of trouble balancing under the weight I need to use.

My current technique is to deadlift a barbell, then I put one foot on a chair, resting the BB on my thigh, the other foot on a board to do the calf raise. It's the best way I've found to use a heavy weight, but keep balance. I'm concluding that it's not too effective though.

Hould I just toss out calf raises all together now, or try something else?

 

[Lol]

In your situation I would guess that the best solution would be one-legged standing calf raises holding a db. That way you can do negs pretty well too. Just use your other leg to help raise up plus you can do loaded stretches too. If you have a staircase in your house that' s a good place to do them as you can hold the handrail to stabilise yourself. Do one leg then swap to the other and keep swapping until you are cooked!

Heavy deads are the other thing that will give your calves something to think about. Keep pushing up the poundages as you are able.

Whatever exercise I use I find I have to go really heavy to get my calves to grow. I used to do lots of sets of 15 reps and got nowhere. Now I'm doing lower rep, heavy sets I am seeing much more response. I am also 3 stone heavier than I was so that means my calves get more daily load anyway. Every little bit helps!

 

[stevejones]

<div>
(etothepii @ Jul. 21 2006,08:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tomorrow will be the last workout in the 5s for me, and there is absolutely no growth in my calves. In my first cycle I had 1/8 inch of growth. I've read about the difference in muscle fibers in the calves, so I understand why they take so long to grow, but I'm wondering if it's even worth working them.

I work out at home and have no aparatus for calves. I have a lot of trouble balancing under the weight I need to use.

My current technique is to deadlift a barbell, then I put one foot on a chair, resting the BB on my thigh, the other foot on a board to do the calf raise. It's the best way I've found to use a heavy weight, but keep balance. I'm concluding that it's not too effective though.

Hould I just toss out calf raises all together now, or try something else?</div>
You could make a box out of some 2x6's or something and put weights on one end to keep it stable, then put a barbell across your back like you're going to do a squat and do calf raises on the edge of the box.  

I'm genetically blessed for calves(wish i could say the same for dinky chest), but what has really made them grow is heavy deadlifts.  When I  started deadlifting I was naturally very good at the lift, and my calves stayed at the same size (fairly large), until I crossed a barrier that was 15% heavier than my starting point.  That's when they began to grow like weeds, and I stopped doing direct work on them because of it.  Direct work is just a waste of time compared to what deads do for them.  I think you might be hard pressed to find a good deadlifter who has small calves (in relation to his other bodyparts).    I understand that everyone isn't blessed in the calf department, so maybe I'm not the best person to take advice from, but just wanted to throw my experience in, fwiw

 

[liegelord]

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(stevejones @ Jul. 21 2006,12:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">

I'm genetically blessed for calves(wish i could say the same for dinky chest), but what has really made them grow is heavy deadlifts. When I started deadlifting I was naturally very good at the lift, and my calves stayed at the same size (fairly large), until I crossed a barrier that was 15% heavier than my starting point. That's when they began to grow like weeds, and I stopped doing direct work on them because of it. Direct work is just a waste of time compared to what deads do for them. I think you might be hard pressed to find a good deadlifter who has small calves (in relation to his other bodyparts). I understand that everyone isn't blessed in the calf department, so maybe I'm not the best person to take advice from, but just wanted to throw my experience in, fwiw</div>
I agree, that's how my calves grow, although I also credit heavy squats and to a lesser degree power cleans. I do no direct calf work at all and see no reason to do direct calf work if one is squatting and deadlifting heavy and through the full range of motion.

 

[imported_etothepii]

I alternate squats (full) and DLs every other workout, since I'm failry new to weight lifting (started this past January) the weight I use is pretty light -- under 200 lbs for each lift.

 

[Old and Grey]

With squats and leg presses, I don't feel the need to work calves since they have a mind of their own anyway.

 

[Lol]

The fact that so many of you guys find that heavy deads and squats are enough for calf development is very interesting. I am not predisposed to good calf development so it adds credence to my belief that heavy is where it's at for calves. I still think that calf isos are worth a shot but only if you go really heavy for 10 reps or less and then do some stretch-point partials to finish up. I only do normal deads once a week (squats twice) so I add in calf isos on the squat days.

etothepii: the problem with calves is that they are very strong! They get to carry your bodyweight around all the time. For most of us a session of hopping about is not too much of a problem but you are putting an enormous amount of strain and relative loading on your calf muscles in doing so. In order to load the muscles beyond what they are normally dealing with you have to be squatting or deading more than your body weight and preferably a good deal more. My deads are now approaching 400lbs for 5s so I feel that they are now playing a decent role in my calf development but when I was deading only 250lbs or so I think the isos were more important.

 

[Sun-Tzu]

I swear you guys have forsaken direct work.

I believe Brian touched on this, but he said after hitting your calves you might want to do some jump roping. Calves are tough (since they are worked all day when you are walking, etc.) so you have to hit them even harder. I personally never do less that 15 reps (even in the 5's) on calves and I constantly increase the weight. They burn like hell everytime. I have small calves to begin with and I've gotten them to grow like this.

I just recently started supplementing muay thai kickboxing on my off days and we do 3 rounds of 3 minutes with jump rope, and let me tell you man I'm definitely feeling it in my calves. Every pro there has huge calves for obvious reasons.

Calves for some I guess just take a lot more training then the usual muscle. I mean look at how much work arnold had to do to get his calves up.

 

[lcars]

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(Sun-Tzu @ Jul. 22 2006,15:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I swear you guys have forsaken direct work.  

I believe Brian touched on this, but he said after hitting your calves you might want to do some jump roping. Calves are tough (since they are worked all day when you are walking, etc.) so you have to hit them even harder. I personally never do less that 15 reps (even in the 5's) on calves and I constantly increase the weight.  They burn like hell everytime. I have small calves to begin with and I've gotten them to grow like this.

I just recently started supplementing muay thai kickboxing on my off days and we do 3 rounds of 3 minutes with jump rope, and let me tell you man I'm definitely feeling it in my calves.  Every pro there has huge calves for obvious reasons.

Calves for some I guess just take a lot more training then the usual muscle. I mean look at how much work arnold had to do to get his calves up.</div>
i agree.

 

[imported_etothepii]

Funny thing .... I just measured my calves, and they are both up 1/8 inch. Last cycle, one stayed the same, the other grew 1/8. So I'm already better off than last cycle.

To me, it seems a Smith machine would be the best solution. Balance will be taken care of, and a lot of weight can be loaded up. I guess I'll just save my pennies!

BTW, all measurements are up over last cycle!!!!

 

[Fausto]

Eto

The one time a Smithy is rather useful!

IMO you need to load as musch as possible even up to 3x bodyweight, calves are tough, I have been blessed and so do not work them directly!

 

[imported_etothepii]

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(Fausto @ Jul. 23 2006,07:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Eto

The one time a Smithy is rather useful!</div>
I've never used one before, but wouldn't it be good for squats and bench press in terms of safety? (I work out alone)

 

[Fausto]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">wouldn't it be good for squats and bench press in terms of safety?</div>

Definitely not!

Squats - plane of motion not straight up and down, it causes terrible restriction of movement, same with bench, you'd be better off on a safety cage.

 

[berserk]

Yeah, genetics seem to be a particularly big factor with calves! Everyone knows a guy who's never worked out or even played much sport in his life but yet has great calf muscles.

For those non-genetically gifted in the calf department I think it comes down to needing more volume, and perhaps more frequency too. High volume when doing 5s and negs with good stretch. Perhaps always finishing with a 2-stage drop set to keep the ERK/1 (?) metabolic signals active as well to cover all bases.

If you don't see growth in your calves when eating for size and working in the heavy 5&gt;neg loads with good stretch and high volume (20 total reps) plus drop sets and working them twice a day, every day for several weeks then I guess you must've already reached your genetic calf potential. Further growth would call for exogenous androgens.

 

[Lol]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Further growth would call for exogenous androgens.</div>
Yeah, which is what Arnie did! But he did up the volume too.

I reckon 5 or 6 sets of 5s (3 or 4 sets of 10s) is good for me. I also find that calves recover from a heavy set much more quickly than other muscle groups so I take as little rest as necessary and then it doesn't take that long. The loads can get pretty big - way more than my calves are used to handling if I jog down the road. During the last couple of sets I do stretch-point partials to finish off and then I can barely walk for a few minutes.