carbohydrates and resistance training.
- Thread starter faz
- Start date
UFGatorDude30
New Member
Good read! I'm the first person to admit I'm not science-savvy, but I've always downed a glass of grape juice before hitting the weights for all the carbs. After reading that, I'm tempted to maybe bring some more juice (fruit, that is
) to drink while working out.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Conclusions
Current research strongly suggests that resistance
training, especially using large–muscle mass freeweight
exercises performed with high training volumes
with moderate loads, is partially dependent
upon muscle glycogen stores. The amount of glycogen
used in these exercises also appears to be related to
the total amount of work accomplished and the duration
of the resistance-training bout. The ingestion of
liquid carbohydrates prior to, during, and after exercise
may serve to promote a faster recovery, which may
enhance subsequent exercise and training sessions.
Additionally, the implementation of carbohydrate supplementation
prior to and during a resistance-training
session appears to offer some ergogenic benefit,
through increasing work output when the athlete is
performing high-volume training with moderate
loads. The ingestion of a carbohydrate beverage prior
to and during a resistance-training bout may ultimately
effect the overall net protein synthesis rate
postexercise, which could magnify the hypertrophic
response to training. These potential ergogenic effects
may ultimately result in improved performance during
daily training sessions, which could ultimately enhance
performance in power sports such as football
and weightlifting.</div>
Gatorade anyone?
Current research strongly suggests that resistance
training, especially using large–muscle mass freeweight
exercises performed with high training volumes
with moderate loads, is partially dependent
upon muscle glycogen stores. The amount of glycogen
used in these exercises also appears to be related to
the total amount of work accomplished and the duration
of the resistance-training bout. The ingestion of
liquid carbohydrates prior to, during, and after exercise
may serve to promote a faster recovery, which may
enhance subsequent exercise and training sessions.
Additionally, the implementation of carbohydrate supplementation
prior to and during a resistance-training
session appears to offer some ergogenic benefit,
through increasing work output when the athlete is
performing high-volume training with moderate
loads. The ingestion of a carbohydrate beverage prior
to and during a resistance-training bout may ultimately
effect the overall net protein synthesis rate
postexercise, which could magnify the hypertrophic
response to training. These potential ergogenic effects
may ultimately result in improved performance during
daily training sessions, which could ultimately enhance
performance in power sports such as football
and weightlifting.</div>
Gatorade anyone?
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Because getting 45-60 g of dextrose mixed in a liter of water would be far to cheap, and would not be neon green like gatorade, right?
Fausto
HST Expert
Faz
Great work...finding this article!
Protein freaks...here's something for good measure!
To me it makes good...good sense (I'm starting to sound like Bryan Johnson of AC/DC- Rock'n roll ain't noise pollution
).
Why? Well...its a lot easier for musclesto process carbs as glycogen than protein,which first has to be converted...notthat it hasn't got its place, but certainly has had a little bit too much advertising.
Fruitarian should be one happy guy when he reads this, he'll be having that silent smile!
Great work...finding this article!
Protein freaks...here's something for good measure!
To me it makes good...good sense (I'm starting to sound like Bryan Johnson of AC/DC- Rock'n roll ain't noise pollution
Why? Well...its a lot easier for musclesto process carbs as glycogen than protein,which first has to be converted...notthat it hasn't got its place, but certainly has had a little bit too much advertising.
Fruitarian should be one happy guy when he reads this, he'll be having that silent smile!
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
I don`t think you`re reading it right. If you want bigger muscles, you need protein. If you want to hold on to them, you want protein. Both carbs and fat can be protein sparing under certain conditions, but in the case of fat it assumes a retardedl reduced protein intake(a by the book keto diet, the thing they have epileptic kiddies on), and carbs are self explanatory in terms of being protein sparing-so if you have an adequate carb intake, you can go with 1g/lb, if you`re going to lower carbs higher would probably be better.
Another thing to note is that unless you`re carb depleted going into the workout, and unless you`re doing lactate inducing stuff that depletes glycogen, you`re not going to rip your glycogen stores apart with your typical bbing workout. That being said, sipping on a carb drink during the workout is good, as it keeps cortisol at bay and mai maintain energy levels more evenly. And yes, this is the top-secret thing that allows workouts of more than 1 hour, without shriveling-sip on a diluted-carb drink
Another thing to note is that unless you`re carb depleted going into the workout, and unless you`re doing lactate inducing stuff that depletes glycogen, you`re not going to rip your glycogen stores apart with your typical bbing workout. That being said, sipping on a carb drink during the workout is good, as it keeps cortisol at bay and mai maintain energy levels more evenly. And yes, this is the top-secret thing that allows workouts of more than 1 hour, without shriveling-sip on a diluted-carb drink
Fausto
HST Expert
Morgoth
I never said carbs replace protein, but this definitely supports some claims that only +/- 15% of total calory intake should be protein, followed by 10 - 20% fat the rest being carbs.
IOW as you say, 1 g/Lb...some even claim 1g/Kg as being enough.
Its just that some "prtein freaks" claim and sometimes even advertise 2g/Lb or loose muscle, get up in th emiddle of the night and have a protein shake or else...that is what I am talking about.
Of course muscle cannot regenerate itself without protein. I never can dispute that!
I never said carbs replace protein, but this definitely supports some claims that only +/- 15% of total calory intake should be protein, followed by 10 - 20% fat the rest being carbs.
IOW as you say, 1 g/Lb...some even claim 1g/Kg as being enough.
Its just that some "prtein freaks" claim and sometimes even advertise 2g/Lb or loose muscle, get up in th emiddle of the night and have a protein shake or else...that is what I am talking about.
Of course muscle cannot regenerate itself without protein. I never can dispute that!
everything in moderation
the body needs protein/carbs/fats,so to stop taking one of these (as some diets do) IMO is madness.
the problem is finding what % is best for you ie some might do better on 40/40/20 while others might be better on 40/30/30 etc.
but as morgorth said sipping on some carbs before during and after has got to be a good idea.
the body needs protein/carbs/fats,so to stop taking one of these (as some diets do) IMO is madness.
the problem is finding what % is best for you ie some might do better on 40/40/20 while others might be better on 40/30/30 etc.
but as morgorth said sipping on some carbs before during and after has got to be a good idea.
Iglay HB, Thyfault JP, Apolzan JW, Campbell WW.
Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN, USA.
BACKGROUND: Resistance training (RT) and dietary protein independently influence indexes of whole-body glucose control, though their synergistic effects have not yet been documented. OBJECTIVE: This study assessed the influence of dietary protein intake on RT-induced changes in systemic glucose tolerance and the contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in healthy older persons. DESIGN: Thirty-six older men and women (age: 61 +/- 1 y) performed RT (3 times/wk for 12 wk) and consumed either 0.9 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [lower-protein (LP) group; approximately 112% of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)] or 1.2 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [higher-protein (HP) group; approximately 150% of the RDA]; the HP group consumed more total, egg, and dairy proteins. RESULTS: After RT, body weight was unchanged; whole-body protein and water masses increased, and fat mass decreased with no significantly different responses observed between the LP and HP groups. The RT-induced improvement in oral glucose tolerance (decreased area under the curve, AUC) was not significantly different between the groups (LP: -28%; HP: -25%). The insulin (-21%) and C-peptide (-14%) AUCs decreased in the LP group but did not change significantly in the HP group. Skeletal muscle insulin receptor, insulin receptor substrate-1, and Akt contents were unchanged, and the amount of atypical protein kinase C zeta/lambda (aPKC zeta/lambda), a protein involved with insulin signaling, increased 56% with RT, independent of protein intake. CONCLUSION: These results support the hypothesis that older persons who consume adequate or moderately high amounts of dietary protein can use RT to improve body composition, oral glucose tolerance, and skeletal muscle aPKC zeta/lambda content without a change in body weight.
PMID: 17413099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
maybe us older guys need to take in a bit more protein than the younger ones
Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN, USA.
BACKGROUND: Resistance training (RT) and dietary protein independently influence indexes of whole-body glucose control, though their synergistic effects have not yet been documented. OBJECTIVE: This study assessed the influence of dietary protein intake on RT-induced changes in systemic glucose tolerance and the contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in healthy older persons. DESIGN: Thirty-six older men and women (age: 61 +/- 1 y) performed RT (3 times/wk for 12 wk) and consumed either 0.9 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [lower-protein (LP) group; approximately 112% of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)] or 1.2 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [higher-protein (HP) group; approximately 150% of the RDA]; the HP group consumed more total, egg, and dairy proteins. RESULTS: After RT, body weight was unchanged; whole-body protein and water masses increased, and fat mass decreased with no significantly different responses observed between the LP and HP groups. The RT-induced improvement in oral glucose tolerance (decreased area under the curve, AUC) was not significantly different between the groups (LP: -28%; HP: -25%). The insulin (-21%) and C-peptide (-14%) AUCs decreased in the LP group but did not change significantly in the HP group. Skeletal muscle insulin receptor, insulin receptor substrate-1, and Akt contents were unchanged, and the amount of atypical protein kinase C zeta/lambda (aPKC zeta/lambda), a protein involved with insulin signaling, increased 56% with RT, independent of protein intake. CONCLUSION: These results support the hypothesis that older persons who consume adequate or moderately high amounts of dietary protein can use RT to improve body composition, oral glucose tolerance, and skeletal muscle aPKC zeta/lambda content without a change in body weight.
PMID: 17413099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
maybe us older guys need to take in a bit more protein than the younger ones
Rozenek R, Ward P, Long S, Garhammer J.
Department of Kinesiology and Physical Education, California State University Long Beach, Long Beach, California 90840, USA. rrozenek@csulb.edu
BACKGROUND: Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.
PMID: 12094125 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Department of Kinesiology and Physical Education, California State University Long Beach, Long Beach, California 90840, USA. rrozenek@csulb.edu
BACKGROUND: Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.
PMID: 12094125 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion during a short-term bout of resistance exercise suppresses myofibrillar protein degradation.Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE.
School of Human Movement Studies, Charles Sturt University, Bathurst, NSW 2795, Australia. sbird@csu.edu.au
A number of physiological events including the level of contractile activity, nutrient status, and hormonal action influence the magnitude of exercise-induced skeletal muscle growth. However, it is not the independent action of a single mechanism, but the complex interaction between events that enhance the long-term adaptations to resistance training. The purpose of the present investigation was to examine the influence of liquid carbohydrate (CHO) and essential amino acid (EAA) ingestion during resistance exercise and modification of the immediate hormonal response on myofibrillar protein degradation as assessed by 3-methylhistidine (3-MH) excretion. After a 4-hour fast, 32 untrained young men (18-29 years) performed a single bout of resistance exercise (complete body; 3 setsx10 repetitions at 75% of 1-repetition maximum; 1-minute rest between sets), during which they consumed a 6% CHO (n=8) solution, a 6-g EAA (n=8) mixture, a combined CHO+EAA (n=8) supplement, or placebo (PLA; n=8) beverage. Resistance exercise performed in conjunction with CHO and CHO+EAA ingestion resulted in significantly elevated (P<.001) glucose and insulin concentrations above baseline, whereas EAA ingestion only increased the postexercise insulin response (P<.05). Time matched at 60 minutes, the PLA group exhibited a peak cortisol increase of 105% (P<.001) with no significant change in glucose or insulin concentrations. Conversely, the CHO and CHO+EAA groups displayed a decrease in cortisol levels of 11% and 7%, respectively. Coinciding with these hormonal response patterns were significant differences in myofibrillar protein degradation. Ingestion of the EAA and CHO treatments attenuated 3-MH excretion 48 hours after the exercise bout. Moreover, this response was synergistically potentiated when the 2 treatments were combined, with CHO+EAA ingestion resulting in a 27% reduction (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. In contrast, the PLA group displayed a 56% increase (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. These data demonstrate that not only does CHO and EAA ingestion during the exercise bout suppress exercise-induced cortisol release; the stimulatory effect of resistance exercise on myofibrillar protein degradation can be attenuated, most dramatically when the treatments are combined (CHO+EAA). Through an "anticatabolic effect," this altered balance may better favor the conservation of myofibrillar protein.
PMID: 16631431 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
School of Human Movement Studies, Charles Sturt University, Bathurst, NSW 2795, Australia. sbird@csu.edu.au
A number of physiological events including the level of contractile activity, nutrient status, and hormonal action influence the magnitude of exercise-induced skeletal muscle growth. However, it is not the independent action of a single mechanism, but the complex interaction between events that enhance the long-term adaptations to resistance training. The purpose of the present investigation was to examine the influence of liquid carbohydrate (CHO) and essential amino acid (EAA) ingestion during resistance exercise and modification of the immediate hormonal response on myofibrillar protein degradation as assessed by 3-methylhistidine (3-MH) excretion. After a 4-hour fast, 32 untrained young men (18-29 years) performed a single bout of resistance exercise (complete body; 3 setsx10 repetitions at 75% of 1-repetition maximum; 1-minute rest between sets), during which they consumed a 6% CHO (n=8) solution, a 6-g EAA (n=8) mixture, a combined CHO+EAA (n=8) supplement, or placebo (PLA; n=8) beverage. Resistance exercise performed in conjunction with CHO and CHO+EAA ingestion resulted in significantly elevated (P<.001) glucose and insulin concentrations above baseline, whereas EAA ingestion only increased the postexercise insulin response (P<.05). Time matched at 60 minutes, the PLA group exhibited a peak cortisol increase of 105% (P<.001) with no significant change in glucose or insulin concentrations. Conversely, the CHO and CHO+EAA groups displayed a decrease in cortisol levels of 11% and 7%, respectively. Coinciding with these hormonal response patterns were significant differences in myofibrillar protein degradation. Ingestion of the EAA and CHO treatments attenuated 3-MH excretion 48 hours after the exercise bout. Moreover, this response was synergistically potentiated when the 2 treatments were combined, with CHO+EAA ingestion resulting in a 27% reduction (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. In contrast, the PLA group displayed a 56% increase (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. These data demonstrate that not only does CHO and EAA ingestion during the exercise bout suppress exercise-induced cortisol release; the stimulatory effect of resistance exercise on myofibrillar protein degradation can be attenuated, most dramatically when the treatments are combined (CHO+EAA). Through an "anticatabolic effect," this altered balance may better favor the conservation of myofibrillar protein.
PMID: 16631431 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(faz @ Jul. 03 2007,11:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Iglay HB, Thyfault JP, Apolzan JW, Campbell WW.
Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN, USA.
BACKGROUND: Resistance training (RT) and dietary protein independently influence indexes of whole-body glucose control, though their synergistic effects have not yet been documented. OBJECTIVE: This study assessed the influence of dietary protein intake on RT-induced changes in systemic glucose tolerance and the contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in healthy older persons. DESIGN: Thirty-six older men and women (age: 61 +/- 1 y) performed RT (3 times/wk for 12 wk) and consumed either 0.9 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [lower-protein (LP) group; approximately 112% of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)] or 1.2 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [higher-protein (HP) group; approximately 150% of the RDA]; the HP group consumed more total, egg, and dairy proteins. RESULTS: After RT, body weight was unchanged; whole-body protein and water masses increased, and fat mass decreased with no significantly different responses observed between the LP and HP groups. The RT-induced improvement in oral glucose tolerance (decreased area under the curve, AUC) was not significantly different between the groups (LP: -28%; HP: -25%). The insulin (-21%) and C-peptide (-14%) AUCs decreased in the LP group but did not change significantly in the HP group. Skeletal muscle insulin receptor, insulin receptor substrate-1, and Akt contents were unchanged, and the amount of atypical protein kinase C zeta/lambda (aPKC zeta/lambda), a protein involved with insulin signaling, increased 56% with RT, independent of protein intake. CONCLUSION: These results support the hypothesis that older persons who consume adequate or moderately high amounts of dietary protein can use RT to improve body composition, oral glucose tolerance, and skeletal muscle aPKC zeta/lambda content without a change in body weight.
PMID: 17413099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
maybe us older guys need to take in a bit more protein than the younger ones
</div>
I think that protein pulse feeding was shown to work in older folks, but to do jacksquat in younger ones, so that`s another thing to bear in mind. But yes, as humans age, protein wastage tends to increase.
Whilst getting huge ammounts of protein into the system and waking up in the middle of the night to sip a protein drink or have some cottage cheese(BTW, this may not be a great idea besides the inconvenience, as the gut needs some rest too, and you`re forcing it to not have any) is silly, as after a certain point protein oxidation will simply upregulate, having it in a safe 1g/lb-1.5g/lb range(this is for training individuals, not sedentary) certainly can't hurt and will most likely help, IMHO.
(faz @ Jul. 03 2007,11:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Iglay HB, Thyfault JP, Apolzan JW, Campbell WW.
Department of Foods and Nutrition, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN, USA.
BACKGROUND: Resistance training (RT) and dietary protein independently influence indexes of whole-body glucose control, though their synergistic effects have not yet been documented. OBJECTIVE: This study assessed the influence of dietary protein intake on RT-induced changes in systemic glucose tolerance and the contents of skeletal muscle insulin signaling proteins in healthy older persons. DESIGN: Thirty-six older men and women (age: 61 +/- 1 y) performed RT (3 times/wk for 12 wk) and consumed either 0.9 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [lower-protein (LP) group; approximately 112% of the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)] or 1.2 g protein . kg(-1) . d(-1) [higher-protein (HP) group; approximately 150% of the RDA]; the HP group consumed more total, egg, and dairy proteins. RESULTS: After RT, body weight was unchanged; whole-body protein and water masses increased, and fat mass decreased with no significantly different responses observed between the LP and HP groups. The RT-induced improvement in oral glucose tolerance (decreased area under the curve, AUC) was not significantly different between the groups (LP: -28%; HP: -25%). The insulin (-21%) and C-peptide (-14%) AUCs decreased in the LP group but did not change significantly in the HP group. Skeletal muscle insulin receptor, insulin receptor substrate-1, and Akt contents were unchanged, and the amount of atypical protein kinase C zeta/lambda (aPKC zeta/lambda), a protein involved with insulin signaling, increased 56% with RT, independent of protein intake. CONCLUSION: These results support the hypothesis that older persons who consume adequate or moderately high amounts of dietary protein can use RT to improve body composition, oral glucose tolerance, and skeletal muscle aPKC zeta/lambda content without a change in body weight.
PMID: 17413099 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
maybe us older guys need to take in a bit more protein than the younger ones
I think that protein pulse feeding was shown to work in older folks, but to do jacksquat in younger ones, so that`s another thing to bear in mind. But yes, as humans age, protein wastage tends to increase.
Whilst getting huge ammounts of protein into the system and waking up in the middle of the night to sip a protein drink or have some cottage cheese(BTW, this may not be a great idea besides the inconvenience, as the gut needs some rest too, and you`re forcing it to not have any) is silly, as after a certain point protein oxidation will simply upregulate, having it in a safe 1g/lb-1.5g/lb range(this is for training individuals, not sedentary) certainly can't hurt and will most likely help, IMHO.
<div>
(Fausto @ Jul. 02 2007,15:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fruitarian should be one happy guy when he reads this, he'll be having that silent smile!
</div>
Fruit tends to have greater fructose than sucrose levels which tends to make for poor carb loads because it primarily fills liver glycogen rather than muscle glycogen
Is there something I'm missing?
(Fausto @ Jul. 02 2007,15:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Fruitarian should be one happy guy when he reads this, he'll be having that silent smile!
Fruit tends to have greater fructose than sucrose levels which tends to make for poor carb loads because it primarily fills liver glycogen rather than muscle glycogen
Is there something I'm missing?
I'm not 100% sure if the fruitarian guy is the same guy from the rosstraining forum but if he is I'm fairly sure he does live purely on fuit...in fact I think I read that he drinks very little water either as he gets it all from fruit..
Could be a different guy though!
Cheers
Rob
Could be a different guy though!
Cheers
Rob