change RMs during the cycle?

B

bobpit

New Member
I know pretty much my 5RMs and I calculated my 10RMs and 15Rms using the RMCalculator I found here: [http://www.health-calc.com/content/view/13/30/].

So for my Squat, my actual 5RM is 95 Kgr. Estimated 10RM=80kgr, 15RM=65Kgr.

During the 2nd week of 15s, I realised 65kgr was too low for me. So today I decided to do an extra workout (7th workout). I squated 15x70 Kgr with no problem. (I zigzaged some of the other exercises). I can probably do 15 reps with 75kgr, maybe even 80kgr.

So what should I do? Extent the 15s to 8 or 9 workouts? Is this necessary? Or go immediately to 10s? (From what I understand after reading the FAQ, maxing out on 15s or 10s is not necessary, progression is what makes you grow). So I guess I should go to 10s. The disadvantage is that I will not know my real 15RM.

Could it be that I became so strong, that my 5RM is now over 100Kgr? Should I adjust it?

Also, after 6 weeks of training, I do expect my 5RM to go up. Should I stick to the program (5RM=95Kr), or try to shoot for 5RM=100Kgr?

How would you handle it?
 
I think if you have determined that your RM's are way off then you should adjust accordingly.
 
OK, I did adjust where I think I was way off.

But Should I do an 8th workout for 15s, or should I go to 10s now?
 
The main point of a cycle is to be able to continually increment loads and do a sufficient amount of work along the way to trigger a hypertrophic response in the body, based on the present level of conditioning.

In your case, as you have obviously way underestimated your 15 and 10 RMs, I would move on to the 10s but make a note of how easy or hard the final w/o was for each exercise during 15s. Do the same at the end of the 10s. (For your 10RM w/o you could throw a few extra pounds on the bar if you still think the loads feel much lighter than your true RMs.)

It's really no big deal that your 15 and 10 RMs are out this time around. What you really need to find are your new 5RMs at the end of the cycle. Get to the end of 5s and then continue to increment the loads each workout (or once a week, depending on how long you want to string out the 5s) until you find your new max's. Then use them for another couple of weeks or add in some negatives where possible.

When you get around to setting up your new cycle you can either just add what you think makes sense to your 15 and 10 RMs for each exercise based on what you wrote down earlier OR you could spend a couple of workouts finding out what they really are before you SD. As you haven't found your true 15 and 10 RMs I think it would be a good thing to do this time around (which is where your notes come in handy).

Not sure how many total reps you are doing for each mesocycle? (Perhaps, 1x15, 2x10, 3x5) Just be sure not to drop your volume off during 5s. Cluster reps if you need to after the first set.
 
Thanks Lol. It makes sense.
<div>
(Lol @ Apr. 05 2007,11:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not sure how many total reps you are doing for each mesocycle? (Perhaps, 1x15, 2x10, 3x5) Just be sure not to drop your volume off during 5s. Cluster reps if you need to after the first set.</div>

I follow the FAQ guidelines:
1st week: 2x15
2nd week: 2x15
3rd week: 2x10
4th week: 1x10
5th week: 2x5
6th week: 1x5

I know the volume goes down. And I know that volume is suppoesed to be a good thing for hypertrophy. But these are the correct instructions, aren't they?
 
Some do it that way, but most guys believe in keeping the volume constant. The FAQ are a great source of info., but hasn't been updated in a long time (and should be imo!)

Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.</div>

I keep seeing people reference number of reps per workout and &quot;volume&quot; and I think it is a little confusing at times because the word &quot;volume&quot; is being used incorrectly.

Sometimes people say to try and target the same number of reps (say 30) in the 15's, 10's &amp; 5's to keep &quot;volume&quot; the same.  In reality since your load is increasing, your &quot;volume&quot; is going way up over the rep ranges.

Volume = weight x reps.  So keeping 30 reps with the high weight in the 5's is a lot more volume that 30 reps in the 15's with lighter weight.

So saying that doing 30 reps in each rep range is keeping the &quot;volume&quot; the same is incorrect unless you are using the same weight.

All that being said, if you can keep your number of reps the same in each rep range it is a sure way to make sure you are increasing your work load/volume throughout your cycle.  Which is what you want to do.
 
The only time to drop volume imo, is once you can no longer handle doing multiple sets of 5. e.g.- once in the last week of 5s and if you are hitting failure in your last set, drop to 2 sets of 5s, then once you hit failure again, drop to 3 sets of 3 or something similar until you have milked the last bit of progression out of your cycle.
 
<div>
(Bulldog @ Apr. 05 2007,12:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.</div>

I keep seeing people reference number of reps per workout and &quot;volume&quot; and I think it is a little confusing at times because the word &quot;volume&quot; is being used incorrectly.

Sometimes people say to try and target the same number of reps (say 30) in the 15's, 10's &amp; 5's to keep &quot;volume&quot; the same.  In reality since your load is increasing, your &quot;volume&quot; is going way up over the rep ranges.

Volume = weight x reps.  So keeping 30 reps with the high weight in the 5's is a lot more volume that 30 reps in the 15's with lighter weight.

So saying that doing 30 reps in each rep range is keeping the &quot;volume&quot; the same is incorrect unless you are using the same weight.

All that being said, if you can keep your number of reps the same in each rep range it is a sure way to make sure you are increasing your work load/volume throughout your cycle.  Which is what you want to do.</div>
good point bulldog, I should technically be saying keep the rep total constant throughout the cycle and that way the volume is progressing along with the load.
blush.gif
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 05 2007,12:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.</div>
1x15, especially when the weight is light, sounds like a joke.

Anyway, in order to really keep the number of reps from decreasing, someone needs to do:
1x15, 2x10, 4x5.

If I do 1x15, 2x10, 3x5, I still decrease the total reps. But I guess this is what most people do, so I will do this.

Actually, this cycle turns out like this:
2x15, 2x10, 3x5
 
A joke huh?
Well, if you are MAN enough to do it, meny veteran HSTers go for a 30 rep total!
2x15, 3x10, 6x5. Once in the 5s though it is brutal. I haven't done it exactly like that, but I have done Max-stimulation training for 40 reps/exercise. I made good gains but burned out in a few weeks.
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 05 2007,12:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2x15, 3x10, 6x5. Once in the 5s though it is brutal.</div>
This is a different program. I have also done the 20-rep squat and it the toughest thing I have ever done.

We are talking HST here.
 
bobpit,

2x15, 3x10, 6x5 still follows the principles of HST.

Personally I don't think it is necessary to keep your reps the same throughout the rep ranges.  I don't even think your volume necessarily needs to go up.  I think it is a balance of volume and recovery that you need to find for yourself.  Maybe it works out to be 1x15, 2x10, 3x5.  Or maybe it will be 2x15, 2x10, 2x5.  Or maybe even 1x15, 2x10, 1x5.  Everyone is different.  I can handle more volume with the lighter weights of the 15's than I can in the 5's.

You also have to keep in mind that everyone does their warm-ups a little differently.  If you are doing a pyramid style warm-up for 3 or 4 sets before your work sets then you might only need one work set.  If you are just doing one warm-up with 50%-60% of your work weight then you might be able to do 2 or 3 work sets.

If you cluster your reps or do Max-Stim then that is a different story because you are managing fatigue differently.
 
<div>
(bobpit @ Apr. 05 2007,12:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 05 2007,12:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.</div>
1x15, especially when the weight is light, sounds like a joke.  

Anyway, in order to really keep the number of reps from decreasing, someone needs to do:
1x15, 2x10, 4x5.

If I do 1x15, 2x10, 3x5, I still decrease the total reps.  But I guess this is what most people do, so I will do this.

Actually, this cycle turns out like this:
2x15, 2x10, 3x5</div>
bobpit

i think your closing in on what these guys are trying explain. is can be tough to &quot;catch&quot; all of it 1/2 way through your 1st cycle especially if your RM are a little off.

to use your example.
1x15 with light wgt is very easy especially if youve low balled your 15 rep max..... 2x15 with appropriate wgt (spot on RM) can be very hard, harder then many like the 15s to be.

much of what will make up your next cycle will come down to 2 things. personal preferences (in exer. chosen, rep &amp; set schemes etc) and what youve learned from your 1st cycle (length of cycle, RMs etc). as you can see everyone has variation in what they are doing to suit their pref. but finding solid exer. that work for you and true RM for them are what usually dictates whether you do 1 or 2x15, 3 or 6x5 etc etc.

i cant speak everyone else but my understanding and concepts about what HST was and what it can do changed dramatically once i got into and thru my 1st cycle. they still get refined with each passing cycle but certainly not as dramatically as they did with my 1st cycle.

you seem to be on the right road, good luck
 
One more thing guys.

After the 3rd workout of the 15s, I cannot always complete 2x15. So on day 4 I did DL 15x75 Kgr, 13x75 kgr. Then on day 6 I did 15x80 kgr, 12x80 Kgr. And I plan to use 85 Kgr for my next workout, hoping that 85 is my 15RM.

I could push for a couple more reps on the second set. But since I avoid failure, I prefer to stop short. The interval between sets is more than 2 minutes, when I feel I need it.

Anything wrong with this?
 
I think that's OK. But if you know you aren't going to get all 15 reps in one shot you can cluster them and do 3 clusters of 5 reps (or however many you want) with just enough rest between them to get all 15 reps in.
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Apr. 05 2007,17:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Bulldog @ Apr. 05 2007,12:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Try keeping volume relatively constant....1x15, 2x10, 3x5 and you will likely see better gains.</div>

I keep seeing people reference number of reps per workout and &quot;volume&quot; and I think it is a little confusing at times because the word &quot;volume&quot; is being used incorrectly.

Sometimes people say to try and target the same number of reps (say 30) in the 15's, 10's &amp; 5's to keep &quot;volume&quot; the same.  In reality since your load is increasing, your &quot;volume&quot; is going way up over the rep ranges.

Volume = weight x reps.  So keeping 30 reps with the high weight in the 5's is a lot more volume that 30 reps in the 15's with lighter weight.

So saying that doing 30 reps in each rep range is keeping the &quot;volume&quot; the same is incorrect unless you are using the same weight.

All that being said, if you can keep your number of reps the same in each rep range it is a sure way to make sure you are increasing your work load/volume throughout your cycle.  Which is what you want to do.</div>
good point bulldog, I should technically be saying keep the rep total constant throughout the cycle and that way the volume is progressing along with the load.
blush.gif
</div>
I'm not sure I agree about Bulldog's definition of volume. I like to think of volume as being sets x reps (or, in other words, volume of reps or total reps). I distinctly remember reading descriptions of training volume used in this way over twenty years ago. The load is a separate thing in my mind. A lot of Blade's explanations in the FAQs wouldn't make sense if you thought of volume as total reps x load.

I like to think of total reps x load being proportional to work done (as, for any exercise, each rep causes the load to be moved through a particular distance which is pretty much constant). I suppose Bulldog is thinking in terms of the 'volume' of work done? This will only ever be proportional to the real amount of work done in newton-meters. Good for comparisons though.

You can easily see if you are doing more or less work at different stages in the cycle by comparing values for load x volume of reps (ie. finding the volume of work!)

If I'm wrong thinking in this way then, as Bulldog says, it must be a little confusing to some folks reading posts here. In future I will try to make it apparent whether I am talking about total rep count or work done (which depends on load and total reps count).
 
bobpit: I don't see any reason to bother clustering to get the second set during 15s. Just call it a day with whatever reps you get to (avoiding failure this time). Loads are relatively light during 15s and you want to keep your CNS as fresh as possible during the initial stages.

As you progress through the 10s and then the 5s you will doubtless start to feel the effects of some fatigue accumulation due to the 3 x week frequency. This will be more pronounced if you have little or no zig-zag between mesocycles. The more you can keep your CNS fresh the more you will be able to increase strain because you will be able to lift heavier. But of course, it's always going to be a balancing act between frequency, load, volume and fatigue. Eventually you will reach a point of stasis. Then it's time for SD.

This section of the FAQ is worth a read:

No. of sets?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top