Chin ups...

M

MO75

New Member
So I'm just over half way through my HST cycle, doing pretty well, making some good gains. I've been doing a 3Xweekly full body HST, pretty much vanilla program with these exercises (in order):
Squats
Weighted chins
Hammer bench press
Deadlifts
Bent over row
Weighted dips
Hammer shoulder press
Upright row
Weighted crunches
Plus some DB flyes, bicep curls and tricep pushdowns when I can be arsed

Now the problem is, I'm up to workout 3 of the 5s and weighted chins are killing me. I do them second (after squats), and they wipe me out for the rest of my program. I feel exhausted and they make my elbows feel really sore. I can push through the rest of my program, but it's not exactly comfortable (particular on other exercises that use elbows, obviously most other upper body ones). I'm doing weighted chins with a 2.5 or 5kg weight, and I can get through the first set no problems, but the second and third I'm pretty much failing to complete. I think because I've put on a bit of weight throughout the cycle it's adding to the overall weight I'm lifting. But yeah, I don't really know what to do - should I drop them altogether, do less than the three sets I was doing, go back to lat pulldowns, or drop the weight down to BW and try bring it back up again for the post-5s?
 
Do not go back to lat pull downs. They are a very distant second to chin ups. Use less weight or no weight. Use bands if you need assistance. And lower the volume. I doubt you need more than 1 or 2 sets to completely work the muscles direcrly involved.
 
Cheers O&G, I might just do the one set from now on then and leave it at that... Quite surprising, I was expecting the squats and DLs to cause me problems first, not chin ups...
 
or try putting them last,if you can only do one set then do it and try to build up the sets.
 
That's a good suggestion too, faz... Alright, I'll do that, leave it till last and basically do as many sets as I can (and if it's just the one then that's no biggy)... Such a good exercise and one I'm trying to improve on, so I'd hate to drop it or let it become a weak point...
 
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(faz @ Jan. 12 2007,10:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">or try putting them last,if you can only do one set then do it and try to build up the sets.</div>
Thats what I was thinking.


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Instead of dropping any sets though, as the load increases, when you cant complete say 5 reps to complete a set.  instead of resorting to doing one full set, then going home, just keep doing them, as many reps at a time that you can, until you complete the total 15 reps.  If you have to do one rep, rest, do another rep, rest, so be it.  This actually goes along the lines of max-stim but I was doing it before I ever heard of max-stim...haha

max-stim is accepted by the HST group, so no fear.
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i agree, i think clustering or max stim can take some of the fatigue/exhaustion out of the equation for you. i also think moving it to the end (or at least diff. part of w/o) could help. some exer. are just physically and mentally draining to do (squats, deads) so following one of those up with another exer. that for you is also draining will just really crush your motivation before youve barely even begun your w/o.

good luck
 
I experimented with Max-stim chins at the end of my last cycle and it worked a treat. Much less fatigue even after 20 heavy reps.

Seeing that you are now on 5s and struggling with them I too reckon you should do them last and do the whole set MaxStim style and keep the load you have been using. Don't do 5 consecutive reps. Just singles spaced out by 5 seconds or so initially and then as you feel fatigue starting to build, leave a little longer between reps. With MS you would aim to get 20 reps this way so 15 should be doable. Doing things this way should allow you to keep incrementing the load for a little longer too. Hope it works for you.
 
Well, I moved them to the last exercise and did three sets of as many as I could - managed to do 1X5, 1X4 and 1X3, so not too bad, and I only felt wiped out on my walk home from the gym
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. Surprisingly, I didn't lose much form at all or too many reps by moving it there, so that was good.

Happy to try Max Stim as well - so basically, I'm doing a single rep, then completely relaxing (i.e., releasing my grip from the bar) for the 5 seconds, and then as lol said taking longer as I start to feel more fatigued? Sounds good, I'll try it tomorrow morning. This Max Stim, I can use it for other things as well, right, I mean as long as I can completely release my grip off the weights? Was thinking I might do that for the Hammer exercises (bench press and shoulder press) I'm doing when I get into the &quot;beyond 5s&quot; part, seems appropriate...
 
MO

I'llquickly jump in here...chins has been beating the hell out of me for a while,whilst you seem to have found a plausible solution...max-stim, I'll give my input,although this way the benefit may not be as good.

Here's what i do, when doing 5's and the chins are getting too much I often superset them with either pendlay rows or low cable rows immediatelly after the chins, my back still gets a good workout that way.

I have tried max-stim and it works great, sometimes though if I am feeling good I'll try to push through as normal besides the fatigue, other times I give in and superset with something else.
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Everyone's opinions so far are good.
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Yeah, tried Max Stim on the chins and also moved it to be the last exercise, it was fine - got 15 reps out in one big Max Stim set. Think I'll stick with this for the moment, but other suggestions have been noted
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Hey, I'm liking the Max Stim chins, it works a treat in terms of minimising fatigue - did a set of 15 with 5kgs, I reckon I might be able to push it up to 10kgs... Question though, does it actually work in terms of growth/adequate stimulus/etc? It feels almost like I'm doing 15 sets of 1 rep (with short breaks in between)...
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Question though, does it actually work in terms of growth/adequate stimulus/etc?</div>

Just check out Sci's progress!! That should answer ur question quite thoroughly.
 
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(nipponbiki @ Jan. 18 2007,07:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Question though, does it actually work in terms of growth/adequate stimulus/etc?</div>

Just check out Sci's progress!! That should answer ur question quite thoroughly.</div>
Just checking some results in the Max Stim forum, that's pretty impressive actually. Think I'm going to Max Stim a few of my exercises in the post-5s, see how long I can prolong my HST cycle (not looking forward to SDing and starting the 15s again, TBH)...
 
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(Lol @ Jan. 12 2007,20:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Doing things this way should allow you to keep incrementing the load for a little longer too. Hope it works for you.</div>
Then after you have incremented all that is possible and if your goal is 15 consecutive reps, each work out or every other start decreasing the time needed in between reps and before you know it you'll have increased your Chin Ups 15RM tremendously.
 
As soon as my 5x5 program fries me, I'm taking DrPierre's suggestion and trying out the 3x10's...shucks, maybe I could graduate down to max stim after them~!
 
Rather than start a new threat, I thought I'd post a question about chins here. I can do about 10 to 12 chinups, and was wondering if it would be better to do body-weight chinups throughout my two weeks of 10s instead of doing progressively heavier lat pulldowns. (I do lat pulldowns during the 15s, and weighted chins during the 5s and negatives.)

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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