Chins Alternative to Bend Over Rows?

The Long Run

New Member
I've been doing bend over rows most of my life so I want to start doing chins. I have A LOT of thickness at the blades area of my back but NO width when looking from the front.

I really need to concentrate on chins for width right? I will probably have to start at bodyweight but that's cool. What I'm wondering is, is it ok if that's the ONLY back exercise I do for a while? I would really like to concentrate on what I've ignored for a while.

Thanks!
 
It should not be a problem, IMO I would just do one oif the rowing movements still but emphasize more on chins (weighted eventually, palms facing you and close grip).
 
You want width in your wings? WG Chins are the way to go. If you have a pulley station, then try alternating with lateral pulldowns. In essence, they are the same exercise, but your body is locked down to the seat. Angle your back at about 45 degrees and pull down with a slow tempo.
 
Suprisingly, deadlifts also hit your lats and teres major pretty hard. Make sure you have deads in your program.

Chin-ups and pull-ups of all kinds are good lat builders but, as Fausto says, chins (with supinated grip) are great because they put your biceps in a strong position which should enable you to use more load.

If you find that you can't get many reps with just your bodyweight yet, just do several low rep sets (clusters) up to about 20 total reps. Keep trying to get more reps in your first set but don't push yourself to failure each set. It's more important to really get in touch with the the muscles you are working and to make them work through a full range of motion. Once you can get 10 bodyweight reps in your first set, I'd add weight the next session. Get a weight belt and chain or just use some rope and tie a weight on to a standard lifting belt.

If you find that fully supinated chins hurt your forearms in the lowest position, then parallel grip chins are really good alternative. They are worth trying anyway.

I also agree with Fausto that it would be good to keep your rows going but just put more focus on your chins. Rows still hit the lats and teres major.
 
I would be concerned about losing some of that thickeness you got from the rows, but I tend to obsess over such things.

As an adjunct to your chinning/pulldown knowledge, have a look at this abstract:

A Comparative Electromyographical Investigation of Muscle Utilization Patterns Using Various Hand Positions During the Lat Pull-down
JOSEPH F. SIGNORILE, ATTILA J. ZINK, and STEVEN P. SZWED The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 16, No. 4, pp. 539–546.

Link to Abstract

I have the full text if you want more info.
 
Eeeehhh...well, wide grip will grow lats to some degree, but they will tend to hit a point where they stop flaring out. It's been an old belief that wide=wide, but there is a fallacy in that.
Simply consider the angle of the humerus bone (your upper arm) when in the wide position.
Then consider it's position in a narrower grip. The lat has to stretch more to attain this, therefore has a longer ROM. I did wide grip for a few years, had stalled out with it (it's not useless to begin with) and blew up when I went narrow.
I'm not sure if beginning with narrow grip would be better/faster or not, but I am presently working both.
 
Thanks for all your replies guys they were appreciated. I'm going to go with wide grip pull ups for this cycle. I'll just increase in reps throughout the cycle as I'm probably pretty weak in this area.

Now to find a way to do pull ups at home without breaking something, or my butt.
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Regarding the study posted by Quantum; I've read it and although there is more EMG activity in the lats during wide anterior pulls, it is the difference in the angle of attack, or type of use of the muscle IMO, that tends to widen the muscle from the front view.
I would assume regardless though, that for overall mass, the wide grip would be better for reasons stated in the article. They were also unable to measure any synergistic musclulature beneath the lattissimus dorsi: the results could be different there.
 
Very true. The study did not delve further. In the full text the author speculates that the increased EMG activity was perhaps due to the fact that an anterior wide grip requires the humerus to be extended as well as abducted. As a side note, the researcher stated that all of the test subjects were able to use heavier loads during the wide grip anterior than in the other pulldown lifts. The difference, however, was not significant.

For anyone curious: The wide-grip anterior pulldown was performed with an upright posture (not leaning back) with lordosis posture kept in the spine. The bar was pulled from full extension to the top of the chest.

Greater EMG activity means only that: greater activity. The researcher's purpose was to examine how the involvement of the lats, posterior delts, triceps long head, pectoralis major, and the teres major differed between various hand grip positions. The author was in no way concerned with how hand grip positions affected EMG activity differences within the latissimus itself. This was a study conducted by a strength researcher for a strength training journal. Such people are not interested in shaping the lats (building thickness, width from the front, etc.). So, for someone who is looking to shape his lats a certain way this article is only an interesting read. I found it enlightening as the HIT/HD camp points to the supinated grip as being the superior lift for overall lat mass building. I do whole-body routines (which means I do only one lat-focused lift). This research suggests the WGA pulldown may be the better choice over the supinated grip if you have only one lat-focused lift to perform in your workouts (like me!)

Unfortunately I have not found a study wherein a researcher examined how various pulldown grips affected EMG activity WITHIN the lats. Such a thing only us muscle heads and a few insightful physiologists would care to know.

One day though, I hope to see it:

The Journal of Bodybuilding Physiology.

Brian Haycock, are you reading this?

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I've always found that an odd point, as I've felt that with a supinated grip, you're using the biceps to do part of the pulling, as opposed to using almost purely lats with a pronated grip.
I only do chins (supinated) as a sort of alternate lat movement that warms up the bi's for some good 'ol squat rack curling.
(I mean when I'm not using the curl machines)
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Exactly my position. Doing full body workouts requires doing the least amount of exercises possible, at least for me and others like me.

My last two cycles involved 11 or 12 exercises if I'm not mistaken and although they were "little" things like forearm and calve exercises, they still causes more sweat and strain and conentration. My workout time and CNS were pushed to the very limit by the end of my cycle.

So now I'm down to 9 basic (and mostly compound) exercises and that's the way I'm going to keep it during this cycle until I can build my CNS up to handle more down the road (if that's ever possible). This means doing 1 exercise per muscle group if at all possible and the reason for this thread.

Anyway....I'll stop rambling and ask another question.

Can anyone tell me why this guy is only going up about halfway on his chinups?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wJ7cpIBSfY&NR=1

This is the pro wrestler Viktor Kruger, who I want to call "Freddy" for some odd reason.
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On enough gear you can grow just mowing the lawn. He's an idiot.
Something told me to leave the sound off: Thankfully, I did.
 
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