Combination HST (5 + 10 + 15)

mikeynov

Super Moderator
Staff member
I've posted lots of variations of HST in the past, and here's another using an idea that's been tossed out here before, namely doing all the rep ranges simultaneously within the HST cycle on any given day.

The usual disclaimer is that these sorts of "tweaks" are inappropriate for people who have not put time into the default HST routine, and are only for those looking for a change of pace or something to break the monotony.

So, the central idea is this, for each exercise you perform, you will perform 3 sets of that exercise.

1 set of 5
1 set of 10
1 set of 15

I'd recommend doing so in that order, as it will also allow the heaviest possible loading, making the lighter weight ranges feel lighter.

So, how do we manage to get all the rep ranges in simultaneously within the context of HST?

Firstly, we will still SD as per usual. So something like 9-14 days off (I think towards the latter end is a better idea) before starting.

From there, I can think of four variations on how to do this. Each has potential advantages and disadvantages.

Variation 1:

2 week cycles

Just like normal HST, build up to 5, 10, and 15 RM at the end of the 2 week cycle. Repeat cycle repeatedly, adding ~2.5 - 5 lbs (this is just a guess, and will vary tremendously with different exercises and individual training age) per lift per cycle. Take two full weeks off every 8-12 weeks.

Variation 2:

2 week build-up + shooting for glory

Just like normal HST, build up to 5, 10, and 15 RM at the end of the 2 week cycle. From there, attempt to push 5, 10, and 15 RM's as long as possible. Back off when stagnancy sets in, repeat. Take two full weeks off every 8-12 weeks.

Variation 3:

3 week build-up

Instead of a 2 week build-up ala normal HST, take three weeks to reach 15, 10, and 5 RM's for each exercise.

Like variation 1, you could choose to continue the 3 week cycles back to back while adding weight over time. Or you could use a 3 week build up and then do the shoot for glory thing ala variation 2 here as well.

Also, you could take one week off (9 days) at the end of 3 weeks, repeating ad infinitum (need for two full weeks off negated by full week off after 3 weeks) while increasing 15, 10, and 5 RM's cycle to cycle.

Variation 4:

2 week build-up + 1 week PR's

Just like normal HST, build up to 5, 10, and 15 RM at the end of the 2 week cycle. From there, attempt new 5, 10, and 15 RM's the next week (perhaps on separate days?).

From here, you can either use these new RM's and repeat the cycle or take one full week off. Like in variation 3, the one week off after 3 weeks on is a different way of playing the SD, allowing more or less indefinite cycles to be run with 1 week breaks between them.
 
Also, as a sidenote, doing variation 1 with fixed RM's (i.e. NOT attempting to add weight to your RM's from 2 week cycle to 2 week cycle) while dieting is probably a pretty good idea. I find it a lot less stressful and a lot more realistic to attempt to not LOSE strength while dieting (versus actively gaining it), so fixing RM's and just repeating 2 week cycles shooting for managable weights while dieting is probably a pretty good strategy.

This is probably worth mentioning since beach season is approaching
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Mikey,

Didn't you already have a rep variation like this? I look at it and I think HIT HIT HIT! Nevertheless, you are still following HST principals. It may work well with Max-Stim for fatigue management. Lifting your 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM for a given exericise can be tough let alone for your entire workout!
 
Mikey, you and I think alike, I just posted a similar type of two-week cycle in my log...very similar ideas to what you are doing here.
Labcoats unite!
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Incidently have you read Designing Resistance Training Programs by Fleck and Kraemer....supposedly one of the most comprehensive science textbooks about weight-training out there...I will check it out at the library before buying it.
 
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(colby2152 @ May 09 2007,16:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mikey,

Didn't you already have a rep variation like this? I look at it and I think HIT HIT HIT! Nevertheless, you are still following HST principals. It may work well with Max-Stim for fatigue management. Lifting your 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM for a given exericise can be tough let alone for your entire workout!</div>
I've covered shorter HST cycles but I don't think I have outlined any combining all the rep ranges in a single workout.

If I have, the alzheimer's might be setting in, as I don't recall doing so
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Mikey, you've thought this out a little farther than I did. Good work.
My final consensus was that the max week would be too hard for us older fogeys. Maybe you young bucks too! I'd think that due to fatigue, your maxes would only be accurate for the first set (5's?) and fatigue would lessen the succeeding set maxes. Still, in the interest of growth and strength, who cares? It's not a competition.

Interestingly, as I'm doing a 2x/week routine instinctively and to failure, I'm mixing up rep ranges all over the place naturally. I have no idea what that means in the long run; I'm just happy to be working out again and doing my best despite my job.
 
Btw, as per previous discussions of variety, if you wanted to be extra nuts, you could make the three sets (one of 5, one of 10, one of 15) three different exercises, or variations of the same exercise, or any combination of the two.

E.g. one set of 5 in wide stance/power squats, one set of 10 on the leg press, and one set of 15 for leg extensions. Something like that.

If you buy into the &quot;hitting muscles from lots of angles&quot; thing, this would probably be a cool strategy.
 
I've actually done a couple of cycles similar to this, Mike. My reps ranges were around 6,12, and 20. My sample size of one found that I liked using different exercises instead of the same one, so 3 different exercises per bodypart. I also tried doing the lower reps first or last and found better results doing the higher reps first, which is totally opposed to what I expected to find. I split the body in half and used a 2 on 1 off cycle. It whipped me pretty good at my advancing age, but it seemed pretty effective. 4-6 weeks was all I could handle before needing SD. Is the mind working overtime currently, Mikey?
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(the_dark_master @ May 10 2007,07:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Er, lots of &quot;thinking&quot; not a lot of &quot;doing&quot;
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Well, the point of these threads is to come up with new ideas/variations for HST that seem reasonable. I don't see the harm in that.
 
I just posted in Sci's thread about this. I did this for a while after an HST cycle, and my strength reaally improved.
 
Btw, with the first variation described here, I kind of foresee logic very similar to DC's program in terms of progression and substitution.

In other words, you attempt to hit PR's once every two weeks (same as DC) per exercise, and when a lift stagnates, you could substitute in a new lift to keep progression going.

&quot;Blasting&quot; then would correspond to a normal HST cycle for 6-8+ weeks or whatever, with &quot;cruising&quot; being an actual strategic deconditioning.

My past experience with HST is that it actually worked very well for strength gains with me, probably due to the frequent practice of lifts and built in fatigue management. Doing 2 week cycles as per the above shifts the focus more towards a strength/hypertrophy thing (ala DC) rather than being hypertrophy-specific, per se.

Bear in mind I'm not trying to ctrl-c ctrl-v DC's system, it's just that the logic of playing HST like this could wind up having similarities one could exploit were one so inclined.
 
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(the_dark_master @ May 09 2007,19:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Er, lots of &quot;thinking&quot; not a lot of &quot;doing&quot;  
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Ahh...have you seen Mikey pics???

Obviously he has been doing the &quot;doing&quot;.

Not to mention his kick @ss strenght!
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(colby2152 @ May 09 2007,16:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mikey,

 Didn't you already have a rep variation like this?  I look at it and I think HIT HIT HIT!  Nevertheless, you are still following HST principals.  It may work well with Max-Stim for fatigue management.  Lifting your 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM for a given exericise can be tough let alone for your entire workout!</div>
Mikey,

Maybe he is thinking of this thread?

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....29;st=0

Did you ever try this and if so how did it go? I'm thinking of something like this for my next cycle.

Thanks,
Firm
 
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(the_dark_master @ May 15 2007,02:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ha  - Joe.Muckle: you're so funny
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Mikey does put up some impressive numbers!
 
I like this idea.

Can this be applied to cut?

If so, just follow the instructions
Or, is there more modifications needed

ie removing 15s etc?
 
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(AKUFADUM @ May 16 2007,08:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I like this idea.

Can this be applied to cut?

If so, just follow the instructions
Or, is there more modifications needed

ie removing 15s etc?</div>
The only thing I'd modify for a cut would be the 5 RM's. I would be cautious about increasing these, might even play the strategy of establishing 5 RM's pre-cut and simply recycling them over and over again (i.e. hitting 5 RM's once every two weeks).

Depending on your training age and a whole bunch of other stuff, though, it's not impossible that you could slightly gain strength even while cutting.
 
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(the_dark_master @ May 15 2007,14:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ha - Joe.Muckle: you're so funny
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For a guy with 6&quot; wrists (i.e. pretty small frame for my height of 5'9&quot;), I think I've achieved decent conditioning at times...

Last summer.

I also probably have a legitimate shot at a natural 300/400/500 (bench/legal squat/deadlift), with my best lifts to date being 275.5/341.5/451.75 in competition (raw). Weirdly I hit a 300 strict chin (me + 135 lbs around my waist) before the bench, which in my mind is as much of an accomplishment, but most people use the bench for whatever reason as an abstract indicator of upper body strength.

I think it's unrealistic to expect every person to achieve (natural) 200 lbs lean, or a 400/500/600, as the t-maggers seem to believe.
 
Initially I was taking the piss out of joe.muckle, for jumping in as your minder... minds-you, you've come back a bit over-zealous in your retort; may be some hidden insecurities lurkin' in the ol' psychy?
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Head above parapet - aim - FIRE! (Reload)
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