Concentric vs Eccentric

Blizz

New Member
Hello guys,

I read an article this week where they are stating that, on a concentric part of motion, the muscle contracts and by doing so, the muscle doesn't grow as much as the eccentric part of it where the muscle is actually expanding. So they are advocating that, by doing only negatives, the more muscle growth will occur. Any respected research discussing this ?

Thanks in advance

Blizz
 
If they came to that conclusion based on that information only, I would just shake my head and disregard the idiocy I just read. I am guessing there were no references since you are asking for research.
 
I did specified an article, not a research but I'm not the one who will disregard it just because it wasn't endorsed by some university... Every source of information need to be tested regardless of their origin imo, just like HST and/or max stim when they came out of the closet.

Blizz
 
Read the HST article and FAQs, Bryan discusses eccentric only movements (negatives) and provides some citations somewhere in there.
 
There are neural and other benefits to negs. But negs vs. regular? If that were true, the mags would be all over it...oh waitaminnit...they'd probably get it wrong and say you have to do fifty sets within an hour and use certain machines and...
Anyway, if you DID have two permanent partners and an empty gym full of equipment every other day, you might be able to set up an experiment to do all negs for the whole body.
Let us know how it goes.
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Blizz, I cannot fathom that there is no muscle growth from a concentric portion of an exercise.

I'm with quad, maybe try and experiment with eccentric reps only to see if they are equally as effective or better.
 
Uh, I just want to be clear about this: I personally did not say that there is NO growth possible from negs. If that were so, we wouldn't attach them to the end of the fives. The main point here is hypertrophy, so a little strength gained at the end of a mesocycle will translate to a higher starting point in the next.
Simultaneously, you are increasing weight and working the muscle somewhat harder, so it still falls into the principles of hypertrophy, as the strength gained in the negs translates to bigger lifts in the eccentrics.
As a black friend of mine says, "Issawlgood."
smile.gif
 
Blade explained pretty clearly, muscle fibres tend to grow better when strectched under contraction. However it is not a state that can be maintained for too long, thus the 2 weeks at the end of the fives.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That being the case, let the weight &quot;stretch&quot; the contracted muscle. Its not about fatigue or fighting gravity. It's about stretching a muscle that is contracted. The harder you contract it the more weight it will require to stretch it. Simple as that. How fast you stretch it usually comes naturally to most lifters.</div>

Here's a complete extract of teh FAQ on that:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">From a physiology point of view, lower a heavy weight too fast and you get golgi-tendon organ interference. The golgi will actually block muscle contraction to prevent tearing, and you aren't really making the muscle engage properly.

Go too slow and the muscle is just fine, but the CNS is, in a manner of speaking, burning through its fuel so fast you can see the gauge moving. It becomes a test of isometric-strength endurance. This will make you better at doing really slow negatives, but it won't necessarily make the muscle bigger at that point.

Methods of primary interest to the serious bodybuilder are negatives, loaded stretching (contrary to popular belief, this method does not require consuming alcoholic beverages prior to stretching) and concentrated loading microcycles. Let us briefly go over these methods and the terms used to describe them.

&quot;Negatives&quot; is a bodybuilding term used to describe the eccentric portion of a movement or exercise. In research you will sometimes see it referred to as &quot;active lengthening&quot;.

This means stretching a muscle to increase its length while under voluntary contraction to resist the stretch. The result of this eccentric action is an increase in tissue micro damage and an increase in eccentric strength.

Negatives are known to be responsible for the infamous delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) that so many of us sadistically strive to achieve. The increase in eccentric strength is a result of neurological adaptations facilitating motor unit coordination during eccentric contractions. As bodybuilders, all we are interested in is the microtrauma.

As mentioned on numerous occasions, we must have micro trauma in order to allow growth factors to &quot;leak out&quot; into the interstitial space, and thus to activate satellite cells. These satellite cells then donate myo-nuclei which help to produce additional contractile and structural proteins.

Certainly I would not recommend negatives unless there were some evidence indicating there usefulness. Type II fibers are favorably activated by the muscle during eccentric contractions as compared to type I fibers.

Type II fibers are those that contribute the majority of growth produced by bodybuilding type training. The stimuli from eccentric loading and concentric loading are similar except that the proportions of the stimuli from eccentric loading are different in some very important ways.

First, the load that is placed on the muscle during an eccentric movement is not distributed over as many fibers as during a concentric movement (Ebbeling, 1989). When measuring EMG activity, or the electrical activity in the muscle, Ebbeling found that it is lower during negative work at both maximal and sub maximal intensities.

This suggests that relatively few fibers are recruited to produce large forces. Therefore, under comparable workloads, eccentric actions produce greater tension per cross-sectional area of active muscle than concentric contractions. In other words, lowering the weight produces more load per fiber than lifting it!

Does increasing the load per fiber as seen in eccentric contractions lead to increases in fiber diameter or simply put, GROWTH?

Hortobagyi (Hortobagyi, 1996) found dramatic differences between subjects performing isokinetic concentric contractions as compared to isokinetic eccentric contractions. Muscle strength, fiber size, and surface EMG activity of the quadriceps were compared after 36 sessions (12 weeks) of maximal isokinetic concentric or eccentric leg extensions.

Eccentric training increased eccentric strength 3.5 times more (pre/post 46%) than concentric training increased concentric strength (pre/post 13%). Eccentric training increased concentric strength and concentric training increased eccentric strength by about the same magnitude (5 and 10%, respectively).

Eccentric training increased EMG activity seven times more during eccentric testing (pre/post 86%) than concentric training increased EMG activity during concentric testing (pre/post 12%).

Eccentric training increased the EMG activity measured during concentric tests and concentric training increased the EMG activity measured during eccentric tests by about the same magnitude (8 and 11%, respectively).

Type I muscle fiber percentages did not change significantly, but type IIa fibers increased and type IIb fibers decreased significantly in both training groups. Type I fiber areas did not change significantly, but type II fiber area increased approximately 10 times more in the eccentric than in the concentric group.
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<div>
(Blizz @ Oct. 09 2007,21:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hello guys,

I read an article this week where they are stating that, on a concentric part of motion, the muscle contracts and by doing so, the muscle doesn't grow as much as the eccentric part of it where the muscle is actually expanding.  So they are advocating that, by doing only negatives, the more muscle growth will occur.  Any respected research discussing this ?

Thanks in advance

Blizz</div>
THere is a buttload of research in this area and there are some definite advantages to eccentrics but the trick is, when reviewing the research, is did they match volume, TUT, work or power. How they desgned the study itself makes a big difference in whether eccentrics prove to be more effective then concentrics.

One of the largest CSA changes seen in a study setting that matched power between concentric and eccentric saw that concentrics out performed eccentric isokinetic only training.

In other studies that matched volume saw virtually no difference in hypertrophy between any mode, isometric, eccentric, concentric.

A recent report looking at P70 and S6 phosphorlyation (a key marker of hypertrphy signalling) showed that eccentrics caused a mark increase in these markers but the design could have been better.

So yes, eccentrics can cause growth, no doubt, but when lifitng isotonically we use both modes and so to worry only about using eccentrics or to say only eccentrics cause growth is reaching.

Also, even in an eccentric movement the muscle is contracting so their argument that it's the contraction itself that is diminshing growth is nonsense.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, even in an eccentric movement the muscle is contracting so their argument that it's the contraction itself that is diminishing growth is nonsense. </div>

Haha! Now there's food for thought!
Reminds me of some self-propagating idiom somewhere...
like chickens and eggs.
 
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