Countering age issues with HST?

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EagleTree

New Member
Hi, I'm 54, 6'0, 162 pounds (would gravitate to about 150-155 naturally). I happened upon HST searching for a way to increase frequency yet stop the cycle of over-training that's followed me since I began lifting seriously 9 months ago. I'm a hard gainer and it's seemed from the beginning, if I didn't get enough frequency, gains don't happen. With frequency I overtrain rather easily.

I've kept good records since I started. 3x6-8 split to three days with multiple exercises per group, brought exceptionally good gains if repeated twice a week. This of course could not be sustained at my age. 5x5 brought great strength improvements but little bulk. Two regular seven-day splits brought nothing but maintenance for the most part. Aside from my ill-advised 2x 3 day split routine, all other routines were focused on "systemic" gains prioritizing squats and deads which I'd heard was a standard paradigm. My experience thus far shows that whatever muscle group is hit fresh within a routine will bulk. Anything further down in a traditional workout will not. Anything left fallow for seven days will not. As I started reading HST, it seemed to confirm my suspicions about tradition inhibiting my ability to bulk.

Toward the end of the last seven day split, seeing no gains and losing strength I'd gained on a previous 5x5 full-body, I bagged it and took the two weeks prior to where I should break and developed an HST test routine, just based on my well-known 10s. I did full-body AM-PM single set for 6 days (12 workouts, 2 weeks). The gains were astounding for what I am used to, having both scale weight and myotape readings "explode" in such a short period. I think this small test showed me a way to get the frequency I need. I found I had the energy to get two perfect sets each workout day this way, all the way to day 6, where I failed on the PM set for Mil and came within a hair on the Bench. Eliminating all failure sets and increasing quality sets seemed pretty spot-on for inducing hypertrophy while possibly keeping over-training at bay. The test was such a success I decided to go for it.

I've tested and calculated my 15s, 10s, and 5s and started on the 15s yesterday following a 10 day SD. Here's the program, it's basic. As I mentioned, it's done on a single set AM and one PM (the PM set is using plate mates for a micro-increase between calculated 5 pound progression, 10 on the Squats / Deads as these get only 3 shots within a RM range). I intentionally placed smaller muscle groups before larger for quality of sets on focus groups based on ignoring significance of "systemic" effect.

Military Press
Flat Bench Press
Bentover BB rows
Chin-ups (using Curls for 15s)
Triceps Dips (using Skull Crushers for 15s?)
Parallel Squat/Conventional Deads (done only AM and alternated between workouts)
Shrugs (AM only, not adhering to HST Rep Ranges)
Calf Raises (AM only, not adhering to HST Rep Ranges)
Crunches (AM, not overly relevant)

I'm using my most effective exercises based on CNS skill assuming the largest number of motor groups will fire. These end up being the most traditional which push the highest weight, that seems intuitively obvious but of course I could be wrong on that.

I'm using the AM/PM to ensure best effort on the sets with a minimum of 5 hours between but keeping PM over four hours from bedtime. Is this superior to using a single set each midday from an over-training potential standpoint, or a wash?

I've noticed that most HST programs use single set per workout day on 15s. Should I forego the PM workout during the 15s and save the training capacity? Is there any benefit to it?

Just to clarify goals, it's hypertrophy with no sport-specific aspects. What I'm targeting is higher frequency within reduced training capacity. Something I think could be important to all older less genetically inclined lifters with a fast metabolism. I'm attempting to find a balance that works for this lessor (within weight lifting populations) percentage set of variables.

I'm presuming this routine is in line with the principles but if not, please let me know where I'm thinking incorrectly.

Thanks
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've noticed that most HST programs use single set per workout day on 15s. Should I forego the PM workout during the 15s and save the training capacity? Is there any benefit to it?</div>
1 set is the vanilla routine but most do 2 so its ok.
never done an AM/PM routine but o&amp;g has and a couple of others,good luck
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dont forget to fuel both workouts,and if you have trouble gaining you need to eat more.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">1 set is the vanilla routine but most do 2 so its ok.
never done an AM/PM routine but o&amp;g has and a couple of others,good luck
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dont forget to fuel both workouts,and if you have trouble gaining you need to eat more.</div>

I hear you on diet, always a challenge to keep it up there though I track it. The two workouts actually help a little in that respect because I end up with two shakes, two servings of high GI carbs and then more traditional protein and complex carbs later. You nailed it, I have pumped metabolism at all times, it's a factor.

Thanks for the input and I think I saw o&amp;g if he was an upper/lower split. Will go back and check.
 
Welcome eagle

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've tested and calculated my 15s, 10s, and 5s and started on the 15s yesterday following a 10 day SD. Here's the program, it's basic. As I mentioned, it's done on a single set AM and one PM (the PM set is using plate mates for a micro-increase between calculated 5 pound progression, 10 on the Squats / Deads as these get only 3 shots within a RM range). I intentionally placed smaller muscle groups before larger for quality of sets on focus groups based on ignoring significance of &quot;systemic&quot; effect.</div>

The HST system is just about perfect for us older guys and gals for that matter, for one because it is about training smarter and not harder, two because it has a built-in joint maintenance/injury prevention scheme in it!

The only thing I'd disgaree with you is that I'd always start with the biggies first so as to avoid being tired out so as to get the most of these biggies, they really &quot;harvest&quot; the testosterone which is important for us older people, the other thing is that I'd use them in the PM phase rather because one's spine is more compressed later in the day and somewhat loose in the AM, but this is somewhat personal as you may feel ok without changing it!

Your workout is quite fine and you r approach verty scientific! Enjoy the growth out of nowhere!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Welcome eagle</div>
Thank you!

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only thing I'd disgaree with you is that I'd always start with the biggies first so as to avoid being tired out so as to get the most of these biggies, they really &quot;harvest&quot; the testosterone which is important for us older people, the other thing is that I'd use them in the PM phase rather because one's spine is more compressed later in the day and somewhat loose in the AM, but this is somewhat personal as you may feel ok without changing it!</div>
Appreciate the disagreement. It is a mistake to change too many things at once if one wants to find the best combination of methods. I did the flip at the same time I set up the low set test, I don't actually know if it's even necessary. I've yet to try a single set with squat / deads on top. That change was more a reaction to problems with other methods where the sets get up there. I may be attempting to solve an issue that no longer exists with HST. I'll try standard order.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Enjoy the growth out of nowhere!
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Well put, I have to admit, the words &quot;free lunch&quot; came to mind as I was watching the results  
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Thanks
 
I did AM/PM workouts for a few years and probably had the best gains of my career. I finally switched to a Monday - Saturday split where I do Push on Mon, Thurs, Pull on Tues, Friday and Legs on Wed, Sat.

The problem I developed with AM/PM's was - I was getting too beat-up doing two workouts per day. I stuck with 1 set of 15, 2 sets of 10 and 3 sets of 5. Over time my joints just couldn't take it anymore. Maybe if I go back to it, I'll cut back on my sets a little but I've tried 1 set routines and for me - it's just not enough.

Another thing I noticed was, in the back of my mind I knew I had to do a PM workout too so I tended to hold back a little in the AM so I could get in my PM workout and hit all of my target weights.

Try it. For awhile you may love it - I sure did. Enough that I may try it again someday. But right now - my joints are pretty healthy and I'm enjoying my split.

Good Luck
Firm
 
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(Fausto @ Aug. 07 2008,9:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The HST system is just about perfect for us older guys and gals for that matter, for one because it is about training smarter and not harder, two because it has a built-in joint maintenance/injury prevention scheme in it!</div>
Honestly, this has been my biggest challenge with HST.  During the latter half of the 5's and beyond, I've been experiencing joint pain, especially in the shoulders.  As a result, I've cut back to every 3 days (rather than 2) during the heavy weights.  I will admit that my benching form during the heavies could probably use some improvement.
 
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(omega99 @ Aug. 11 2008,9:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Fausto @ Aug. 07 2008,9:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The HST system is just about perfect for us older guys and gals for that matter, for one because it is about training smarter and not harder, two because it has a built-in joint maintenance/injury prevention scheme in it!</div>
Honestly, this has been my biggest challenge with HST.  During the latter half of the 5's and beyond, I've been experiencing joint pain, especially in the shoulders.  As a result, I've cut back to every 3 days (rather than 2) during the heavy weights.  I will admit that my benching form during the heavies could probably use some improvement.</div>
I had the same problem but not with HST. It was bothering me on a 5x5 which is a continuous battering. Maybe you can save your frequency by temporarily changing the lift mechanics till the shoulder heals. I reduced ROM to bringing elbows no lower than plane of my back (I actually set the safeties to force myself to do it), brought elbows in a bit towards the body and really started focusing on more forcibly squeezing shoulder blades. While that ROM reduction hurts the effectiveness of the lift, it can ward off serious shoulder problems before they get to the point of completely stopping your workouts. Mine's been dogging me for a long time, the above really helps and I wish I'd tried it before the problem became severe.

How far you bring your elbows down is not given, you have to try it unloaded and see where the stress point is for your unique biomechanics. If you are like me, you can feel the binding point unloaded and that will end up as pain when loaded. Additionally you may feel it more dramatically the more you flare your elbows. It's unfortunate because I can sense a better pectoral hit with full flare, but the shoulders don't like it yet. I'm hoping that when mine fully heals, I can return to traditional ROM. The reduced flare lowers the RM but the abbreviated ROM increases it so it's kind of a wash in weight but a reduction to the pecs (I think, that's by feel, not fact).
 
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(Firminator @ Aug. 11 2008,3:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did AM/PM workouts for a few years and probably had the best gains of my career. I finally switched to a Monday - Saturday split where I do Push on Mon, Thurs, Pull on Tues, Friday and Legs on Wed, Sat.

The problem I developed with AM/PM's was - I was getting too beat-up doing two workouts per day. I stuck with 1 set of 15, 2 sets of 10 and 3 sets of 5. Over time my joints just couldn't take it anymore. Maybe if I go back to it, I'll  cut back on my sets a little but I've tried 1 set routines and for me - it's just not enough.

Another thing I noticed was, in the back of my mind I knew I had to do a PM workout too so I tended to hold back a little in the AM so I could get in my PM workout and hit all of my target weights.

Try it. For awhile you may love it - I sure did. Enough that I may try it again someday. But right now - my joints are pretty healthy and I'm enjoying my split.

Good Luck
Firm</div>
Thanks and appreciate the input. I'm waiting to see what happens with the 5s. I could run into what you describe. I had such amazing results with the 10s on single sets that I'm probably going to try that on the 5s too just to see what happens. Hopefully that will keep the issues from coming up, I am concerned about joints. That's one problem with age I keep bumping into.

Now 6 sets of 5 done 3 AM and 3 PM would exceed a 5x5 by quite a bit more than one set due to recovery between workouts. That would be a massive volume. For the AM/PM method, I was thinking if I were to try 3 sets, it would be 3 sets per workout day on the 5s.

The single set really doesn't have the feel, you finish and it's like you didn't workout in a very short time. I'll carefully increase sets when I know I'm not messing with my training capacity. It's probably going to take complete cycle to figure out gains versus workload and then adjust.

Your routine sounds really good. Six days of workouts would be nirvana. Enough variation across the week to keep it interesting too.
 
Eagle, welcome to the world of low hormones. I've been ascribing to a form of the &quot;Old and Grey&quot; routine myself lately with good success, except that I've been doing two sets instead of one, and wind up with DOMS every time. At 3 -4 training sessions a week, it's basically a once-per-week routine leaving me sore all the time.
As this is beginning to stall out (and my workload is totally on now) I'll probably be going to his original daily workout system with one set each or do an HST cycle.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....;st=240
Periodic change is good, and very necessary for us older guys. I'm your age, and notice that the body tries even harder to return to stasis. For this reason, I've discontinued the two-week SD I used to do. I lose too much mass and strength and have to build it up all over again.
Pretty much at this point in life it's more a game of trying to keep what you had rather than gain more...that is, if you came close to your genetic limits. If not, you should be able to advance nicely.  With testosterone usage, I think the limits almost disappear for a while, but I haven't been able to try that. Yet.
 
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(quadancer @ Aug. 16 2008,10:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Eagle, welcome to the world of low hormones. I've been ascribing to a form of the &quot;Old and Grey&quot; routine myself lately with good success, except that I've been doing two sets instead of one, and wind up with DOMS every time. At 3 -4 training sessions a week, it's basically a once-per-week routine leaving me sore all the time.
As this is beginning to stall out (and my workload is totally on now) I'll probably be going to his original daily workout system with one set each or do an HST cycle.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....;st=240
Periodic change is good, and very necessary for us older guys. I'm your age, and notice that the body tries even harder to return to stasis. For this reason, I've discontinued the two-week SD I used to do. I lose too much mass and strength and have to build it up all over again.
Pretty much at this point in life it's more a game of trying to keep what you had rather than gain more...that is, if you came close to your genetic limits. If not, you should be able to advance nicely.  With testosterone usage, I think the limits almost disappear for a while, but I haven't been able to try that. Yet.</div>
In a way I'm &quot;lucky&quot; because I did mostly aerobic exercise and totally wrong weightlifting up until 53 YO. While I lost a lot of fast twitch to atrophy I'm sure, I'm still able to bump what I have up so I'm not near at my genetic potential. I'm already showing some pumped measurement increases on the 15s, not sure I trust them though as I've never done 15s before. Could be I experience more edema on a high frequency 15 routine. Sure looks cool in the mirror though  
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I think you and others are right that 2 sets would be better but I'm still cautiously testing a sustained frequency prioritized over a superior workload in one workout. Age and fitness is a tightrope walk it seems!

I appreciate your comment on SD. I've talked about this on other forums concerning rest periods and people ridicule the idea that there is any significance. I lose mass when I let it go even a short time. I was worried about doing a 14 day SD because of this. Just finished studying average mass loss rates and the over all average is, in lieu of anaerobic work and immediately following the taper off of the &quot;last&quot; workouts impact, that the &quot;generic&quot; human begins losing at 50% the rate at which they gain. I did a quick guess about what that might mean to me and I think 14 days would equate to canceling out 2 workouts. Unfortunately we are up against another age-based catch-22 there. Overuse injury comes easier and sometimes, one could use even three weeks to let things heal. Just can't do it though. But I concur, 14 is too much and I'm planning an outside SD of 9 days.

On that same note, I observed that when I started the 15s, it seemed nothing happened at all in the first 4 workouts (2 days). Not sure if this was just related to light weight or because of the pre-SD I did before starting. The weight was probably not the issue because I'd estimate I will fail tomorrow on both Mil and BP, tomorrow is the final workout day of the 15s. My rest periods normally have ushered in less than stellar performance for the first few workouts which feel like a catch-up time. I think I'll be researching what I can do to blunt the effects of SD while honoring the purpose. I've no idea what that would be but everything has a solution if we look for it. I've been looking at what it takes to constitute absolute minimum anaerobic threshold and maybe building an &quot;SD Routine&quot; around that. I don't mean full-bodies and compounds, just alternate exercise using some resistance and combo cardio-vascular work.

Speaking of solutions, I'm still gassed about this schedule and HST weight range workout. It really seems to be working. Tomorrow I finish 15s and then onto the 10s. I already know what to expect there so like I say, I'm gassed. 54 doesn't seem that old nowadays  
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Took a look at your routine and link, you've got some impressive leg development going on. I'm catching up there because when I first started, I did not really research and did what seemed intuitive... I lifted upper body. It's interesting that my deads and squats are extremely disproportionate and I think it's a result of not understanding what a well rounded program was at that time.

I noticed the mention of testosterone replacement. I hadn't even thought of that except some recommendations a friend made for an herbal supplement that is supposed to work for many. I didn't even try that because I figured if I'm getting gains, I'm probably slowly tweaking some hormone chemistry reversal at this point. I want to see how far that carries me.
 
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