Couple questions on growth

S

semajes

New Member
I'm not quite sure how to best articulate my question, but here goes ...

Is growth controlled by an on/off switch, or is it hooked up to a dimmer? In other words, assuming that I work my muscles adequately and consume enough calories to establish a caloric surplus (along with protein etc), can I assume that I am going to grow as rapidly as my body will allow? Or will it grow more rapidly if I work the muscles more, cause even greater myotrauma, and eat even more calories? If so, which of these variables is the more important one?
 
I just realized that it might help for me to explain why I'm asking.

My last cycle was pretty unsuccessful. I gained about 5 pounds and about 1/2 an inch around my waist. After SD I've only got 1.5 pounds left of that gain (mostly water apparently), and I know that if I lose that 1/2 inch around my waist, the last pound and a half will disappear as well. That means I didn't gain any measurable amount of muscle.

I was sore after every workout, lifted heavier than I ever have before, and my diet was excellent. I know that I was eating over maintenance, since I gained fat at a fairly steady, albeit slow, rate.

So, now, to make this new cycle successful, do I work my body harder, or get fatter? Or am I already doing everything I can, and my body is just growing at glacial speed (Hence the on/off vs. dimmer switch question)?
 
We all have different bodies and there are many, many variables involved in converting food to muscle. One of the most important is your testosterone level. If it is very low, i.e., under 300 ng/dl (total testosterone), you can eat all you want and work out all you want and you will gain little muscle and a lot of fat no matter how clean your diet is if you are eating more calories than you are burning as fuel. If that is the case, and a blood test is the best way to determine your T levels, then you need to determine how you should go about raising it. There are herbs available that seem to work somewhat, there are hormone therapies available mostly through endochronologists and there are illegal steroids. The last alternative can be very dangerous if you don't have a good base knowledge of pharmacology.

Bottom line, if you are absolutely sure that your workouts are good and your diet is good, have your doctor check your T levels, especially if you are over 30. If they are okay then you probably don't have your training and diet dialed in as well as you suspect. Genetics will determine how large your muscles can get but the above 3 items, T levels, training and diet, HAVE to grow muscles if they are all okay.

By the way, your testosterone levels do not have to be super high to see great results. If you can get them up to 600 to 700 ng/dl, you will see very, very nice results. You won't look like Ronnie Coleman but who really wants to?    :confused:
 
Couple of idea..
- are you sure you deconditionned long enough?
- if you didn't grow probably the stimulus was not strong enough. So maybe you can think about increasing the volume or starting with a heavier load next time.
 
If you do have a Hormone panel done be sure they check for Free T, not just serum T. If your serum T (total T) is within range it still might be bound by SHBG or it may be converted to Estrogen, so be sure they check the Ratios.
 
I'm only 32 -- is it really possible that my T levels are already low?

Heavy Duty dude, I'm pretty sure my sd was effective. It was 17 days, and I was sore from the very first workout. I know that's not necessarily a certain indicator, but I guess it's all I've got to go by. Actually, I guess that's another question: You needn't be sore to indicate that a workout has caused myotrauma, however, is soreness a reliable indicator that you have caused damage?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (semajes @ June 02 2005,6:31)]I'm only 32 -- is it really possible that my T levels are already low?

You needn't be sore to indicate that a workout has caused myotrauma, however, is soreness a reliable indicator that you have caused damage?
Click to expand...
Yes.

DOMS is more of a good indicator that remodeling is happening. In other words you have done something to cause prostaglandins release into the tissue, usually inflamation, beginning the remodeling process. Whether or not you caused enough strain (distruption) to the cell to cause satellite cell activation won't be known, we can only assume that with a progressive load and proper training we have. Now the interesting thing is that even with one acute bout causing satellite cell proliferation some studies show that differentiation doesn't happen without subsequent bouts. Yet DOMS usually occurs once then it lessens even though you are contunally applying a suffcient stimulus. So using DOMS as an indicator that something is going right is good as long as the stimulus can be maintained, but to change up your training to try and acheive DOMS only gets you chasing your tail.
 
1.Widened Z-discs
2.Mishapened sarcomeres
3.Double Z-discs
4.Additional sarcomeres

Yu et al, showed that eccentric contractions with DOMS did not necessarily cause "damage" to the cell but did at both 2 to 3 days and 7 to 8 days after the eccentric contraction show these signs of remodeling.
 
Hey --- I am not a science jock like dkm, but I find growth comes in spirts. And different things tend to grow at different times. There could be a whole lot or reasons for this -- I think I read once that some training generates the satilite nucli and then the next month or so they are activated. Anyway -- for what ever reason --it comes in spirts. So yes look at your diet and look at your training. But also be patient -- this is magic but it does take a little time. Some of my HST cycles show significant growth and some show little growth -- but when you put 3 cycles together it shows ;) -- bob
 
Thanks, Bob, I appreciate that.  And I think you're right, by the way.  That has also been my experience -- that growth comes in spirts.  I guess I just got nervous and a little discouraged (and curious).

DKM, I guess I thought that some of those things you listed were one and the same as the myotrauma we are after.  That isn't true?  I have trouble with this because "remodeling" sounds a lot like "rebuilding" which I associate with growth.  Apparently, not always, eh?

Also what about that on/off vs. dimmer switch question?  My assumption would be the dimmer switch -- that is, that you can activate some satellite cells and initiate some growth, but could always activate more with more damage (up to a certain point, of course).  Unfortunately this leaves me feeling as if I should do more.  :confused:
 
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