Critique my plan, please

[T-man]

Stats – age 53, just under 6’ tall, endo/meso body type, body fat probably 20-22%, crashed metabolism (IMO) since until recently I could gain weight on 1800kcal per day. Have been lifting half-azzed 2-3 times/week for several years (several HST cycles most recently), inconsistent cardio (elliptical), but diet has not been good enough until recently, so progress has not been great (although I have made some).

About a month ago I started getting the diet sorted, and being more dedicated in the gym to where my metabolism is getting better. I currently weigh 240lb and have been able to keep it 239-241 for several weeks now at an average 2600kcal daily (206g protein on avg.).My HST program is as follows: 12-8-8 instead of 15-10-5 since growth is more important to me than strength at this time. I’ve bought into total reps per lift rather than a strict “reps per set” scheme. I’ve also been utilizing myo-reps. I do warm-ups of everything and then move to the working reps. My target is 24 reps for each lift, progressing the weight each workout per HST principles with either 12 or 8 reps for the first “set” depending on which mini-cycle I’m in. For example, Rows myo-reps of 8-5-4-3-4 with 25 sec pause, then move to the next lift.

Lifts
•Squats
•Shrugs
•Incline BP
•Rows
•Overhead press
•Pullups (assisted)
•Triceps pressdowns
•Preacher curls

Last week I completed the 8 rep mini-cycle and this week I’m continuing with 8RM weights and will either try to increase weight or reps each workout. Since my metabolism isn’t yet where it should be, my plan is to up my calories to 2800 per day over this 2 week mini-cycle and if there is no discernable fat gain, increase another 150-200 for the next mini-cycle, then SD if I need it before repeating. Is this a sound plan?

 

[T-man]

What's up with the formatting?

The mess above doesn't look the way I intended. Sorry.

Edit - was able to fix. Thanks, grunt.

 

[grunt11]

First off several of us have had that formatting problem, here’s how we took care of it:

http://thinkmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?41426-No-text-formating-when-posting

Overall it seems like a sound plan especially ditching conventional sets/reps and going for a number of target reps. IMO myo-reps work great but if you’re using them make sure to go just short of failure both on the activation set and each subsequent cluster. Don’t stop just because you hit 12 or 8 reps on the first set, for them to work properly you really must go to 1-2 reps short of failure. Other than that just progress the weight like normal.

 

[Totentanz]

T-man:

Are you avoiding the 5s because you believe the higher rep ranges to be better for growth or is it because you want to avoid possible injury? The reason I ask is simply that the 5s definitely provide more growth stimulus than the 8s. Not only that, but getting stronger - as long as you are eating right - is one of the most sure-fire ways to get bigger.

This isn't to say that 8s won't make you grow because they definitely will. And using myo-reps would help optimize the 8 rep range to ensure you are getting the best stimulus you can. But I would never neglect the 5s or the lower rep ranges unless there is a physiological reason such as bad elbows, shoulder, etc. Even then, I would prefer to progress bigger lifts like squats, deads that I can do safely in the lower rep ranges and keep those lifts that can mess up my elbows (biceps, triceps) in higher rep ranges to avoid injury while still progressing.

Regarding diet... It sounds like you want to grow but you do not want excessive fat gain. Obviously this is something we all want, haha. But if you are serious about pursuing that sort of a setup, have you considered intermittent fasting? I've done IF on maintenance calories with amazing results before - basically I managed a recomp, which wasn't anything hugely dramatic appearance-wise but I did lose two inches on my waist while maintaining my weight. I can help you set this up if it is something you are interested in.

 

[T-man]

T-man:

Are you avoiding the 5s because you believe the higher rep ranges to be better for growth or is it because you want to avoid possible injury? The reason I ask is simply that the 5s definitely provide more growth stimulus than the 8s. Not only that, but getting stronger - as long as you are eating right - is one of the most sure-fire ways to get bigger.

This isn't to say that 8s won't make you grow because they definitely will. And using myo-reps would help optimize the 8 rep range to ensure you are getting the best stimulus you can. But I would never neglect the 5s or the lower rep ranges unless there is a physiological reason such as bad elbows, shoulder, etc. Even then, I would prefer to progress bigger lifts like squats, deads that I can do safely in the lower rep ranges and keep those lifts that can mess up my elbows (biceps, triceps) in higher rep ranges to avoid injury while still progressing.

Regarding diet... It sounds like you want to grow but you do not want excessive fat gain. Obviously this is something we all want, haha. But if you are serious about pursuing that sort of a setup, have you considered intermittent fasting? I've done IF on maintenance calories with amazing results before - basically I managed a recomp, which wasn't anything hugely dramatic appearance-wise but I did lose two inches on my waist while maintaining my weight. I can help you set this up if it is something you are interested in.

Thanks, Grunt. I guess I'm learning something from this site.

Totentanz:

From what I've read on this site and another, it's my impression that the 8-12 rep range induces the greatest amount of hypertrophy and is the reason I'm using them for my mini-cycles. I was thinking about adding a 4 rep minicycle, but again, from what I've read the low rep range is more for strength than hypertrophy, and strength isn't as important to me ATM. For now I would rather look like I can lift a lot than actually be able to. Also, over the last two years I've battled pain in both shoulders, one elbow, and tingling in my right arm at different times. I've worked through the pain and have been pain-free for several months now.

In my youth I was always a chubby kid, but somewhat athletic (good, not great football player, OK in baseball, mediocre shooter in basketball, decent volleyballer). Like many, I was in my best shape in high school, but still carrying too much fat at the end of football season at 170lb. Added 15lb my first year of college, but got my flat bench to 250 X 3 and it was downhill from there. I got down to 162 skinny fat lb due to no appetite during my divorce in the mid-eighties. I've been as high as 250lb with a gut and am now at 240 with a lot less fat around the midsection. I've been an yo-yo dieter for 25 years (the wrong way), and it's wrecked my metabolism.

Regarding diet and calories, I don't have a huge appetite, and it's difficult for me to get in the 2600kcals/day of clean food I'm currently at, and my plan for 2800 will be moreso. I hate feeling stuffed. For this reason I don't think IF is for me. I don't see how to fit all those clean calories into an 8hr window. The feeding window could be another problem for me since I work out 5-6pm and am in bed at 10pm. Two workouts on lifting days won't work due to my job and I want to have time to spend with my wife.

I have the patience and have been attempting to recomp since I first started HST last year, so that's why I'm trying to fix my metabolism and get my maint. cals up and go with a slight surplus to offset what I'm burning through lifting. I'm seeing slight progress in the mirror, and scale weight isn't bothering me as much as it used to. I can't abide going up in pants size right now.

So with all that being said, one or two 4 rep mini-cycles isn't out of the question after these 8's are complete and I am open to other suggestions. Thanks for the input. I think I'm on the right path.

 

[Totentanz]

I would like to know what you read on this site that gave you the impression that 8-12 rep range is better for hypertrophy. Considering the standard HST example routine is optimized for hypertrophy and does not use 8 or 12 reps would seem to suggest that Bryan did not come to that conclusion when he designed HST. In fact, one of the main things I learned when I first came to this site is that the conventional bodybuilder wisdom that you have to work in the 8-12 rep range for growth was wrong. So, I'd like to know what you read on this site that says that so it can be corrected.

I would refer you to the FAQ, and a few articles in the FAQ section:

Sub-Maximal Workouts

Training For Fiber Type

Higher loads with equivalent volume leads to greater hypertrophy regardless of fiber type. It also doesn’t surprise me that these researchers were confused by the fact that the low rep group had as much or more hypertrophy that the other groups. They too have the idea cemented in their brain that you can’t use heavy weight to stimulate hypertrophy. The strength training dogma of the past has deeply influenced even the research community with regard to hypertrophy. This has done nothing but hinder their progress in understanding it because they end up designing studies on false premises.

I’m not sure why people are so hesitant to accept the preeminence of load for producing hypertrophy. Perhaps it is that they fear not growing as fast as they think they can.

When Do Most People See Their Gains

Please remember that the stimulus for growth has nothing to do with any specific rep count or rep range, but has everything to do with the frequency, progression, and effective SD as per the HST principles. So in theory you should be growing at a constant rate throughout the cycle, but this doesn't always happen due to the way people eat and implement the HST program.

- Blade

 

[Totentanz]

With regards to the diet, if you are feeling stuffed at 2600 calories then I would question your food choices. Might not be the optimal foods for you to be eating. There really isn't any such thing as eating clean. As long as you are meeting your macro goals and your calorie goals then you are fine. Health/cholesterol/etc is mostly going to be determined by activity level and genetics, less by your actual diet. But maybe if you posted up a list of what you are actually eating, that would help. Just as a contrast to what you report, I'm currently maintaining on roughly 4000 calories a day and I don't feel stuffed. So it should definitely be possible for you to eat more without feeling so full, you might be getting too many starches or something like that. Hard to say without knowing what all you are eating.

Have you considered purchasing the services of a nutritional coach? I know a few guys who will give you several options, some will charge a fee to create a two week diet plan, some will charge to coach you along the way, etc etc. Could be useful if this is an area you need help in.

 

[T-man]

Regarding rep ranges: I stand corrected. I've been reading other forums and mixed up sites. I'll add a 4RM cycle to my program after I complete the 8's.

As far as diet, here's what I'm eating today; less than 2700 calories (200g protein) based on measuring everything. All food is logged & tracked in a diet/nutrition coaching program called Diet Power.

2 cups Cheerios with 1 cup skim milk
PBJ with 3tbs natural pb, 1tbs jam, 2 slices whole grain light bread
2 cups homemade chili made with 95% lean ground beef, beans, pasta & V8 juice
2.5 oz lean steak mixed with light mushroom gravy and long grain wild rice
6 oz apple
protein shake made with 2 scoops whey protein, 1 cup skim milk, 1/2 cup water
homemade chicken soup with 3 oz chicken, low cal chicken broth, 1 cup mixed vegetables & 1/4 cup pasta

This is typical for the last month as I've slowly increased calories from 1800-2600 while maintaining weight. Now, I could easily get more calories from junk food without feeling stuffed, but I've been trying to do it right. My plan is to add a combination of fruits/vegetables/raw nuts as I increase to 2800 kals/day over the next few weeks.

For me, this is a lot of food.

 

[yuppaz]

Diet

I didn't count it all out, but it looks like your diet is high is too high in fats and too low in protein. I'm pretty strict about my diet and count all the macros and I have never had room for 3 tablespoons of peanut butter. Other, more experienced guys with more experience can jump in, but I think the rule of thumb is: 1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight (so for me at 180 lbs I need 270 grams of protein, but at a minimum 180 grams of protein per day. Hitting that means dividing my protein intake by number of possible meals, or 270 / 6 = about 45 grams per meal. That means when I wake up I need a couple scoops of protein in a shake, then my next meal is 5oz chicken, then 5 oz steak (lean), then protein again pre workout, and post workout. Carbs - tricky, depends on if cutting down or trying to add weight and very dependent on your body needs and energy needs. If bulking, the rule of thumb is (something around) 3 grams per pound of body weight. So for me 180 * 3 = 540 grams. However, I don't currently eat that much carbs, I do about 300 something which in practical terms works out like: 1 cup dry oats blended in my morning shake, 1 banana in meal two, 5 oz sweet potato in meal 3, 1 cup brown rice meal 4, intra workout vitargo, post workout 70 grams carbs from vitargo (in protein shake), then an hour after that eating another meal with 1 cup of brown rice. It's basically a sh*t ton of carbs, which I was at first leary of because I leaned out going low carb but didn't gain size or strength until I put them back in with a vengence. Fats - fats should make up between 20-30% of your macros, in total to add up to your caloric needs. SOme of it comes from the food I already eat, and some comes from peanut butter, or olive oil flax seed oil etc. I use fitday.com to track how much of what is needed to make up my caloric needs and my macro's. You may want to check it out to re-plan yours

 

[yuppaz]

p.s.

Your food log application is wrong. You aren't getting 200 grams of protein with your diet I would say closer to 100 (can just tell from the food you are eating something is way off.

 

[T-man]

Your food log application is wrong. You aren't getting 200 grams of protein with your diet I would say closer to 100 (can just tell from the food you are eating something is way off.

OK, here's the breakdown for today's calories and macros:

6g Tonalin XS-CLA 54 cal, 0p/0c/6f
2 cups Cheerios 266 cal, 3p/64c/3f
2 cup skim milk 180 cal, 16p/13c/0f
6oz apple 99 cal, .4p/26c/.6f
2 slices bread 70 cal, 5p/16c/0f
1 tbs jam 54 cal, 0p/14c/0f
3 tbs natural PB 300 cal, 10p/9c/24f
1.5 scoop prot. powder 176 cal, 37p/2c/1.5f
Steak, rice & lite mushroom gravy 469 cal 26p/66c/14f
homemade Chili 549 cal, 43p/62c/18f
homemade Chicken soup 250 cal, 24p/30c/3f

Totals for day: 2467 cal, 166p/161c/70f
The protein is lower because I had logged a chicken portion twice. It's still closer to 200 than 100 and I know I need to get the protein up to at least 240g. I've been getting closer recently. The point I am making is that for me this is ALOT of food and bumping it up to 2800-3000 while trying to improve my metabolism is going to be tough.

Yesterday's food:

6g Tonalin XS-CLA 54 cal, 0p/0c/6f
Steak, rice & lite mushroom gravy 469 cal 26p/66c/14f
2 cups Kashi Go Lean cereal 280 cal, 26p/60c/2f
2 cup skim milk 180 cal, 16p/13c/0f
1.5 scoop prot. powder 176 cal, 37p/2c/1.5f
2 slices whole grain bread 70 cal, 5p/16c/0f
2 tbs natural PB 200 cal, 10.5p/9c/24f
1 tbs jam 54 cal, 0p/14c/0f
2 slices whole grain bread 70 cal, 5p/16c/0f
3.4 oz chicken 30p/0c/3f
1 slice cheddar cheese 80 cal, 5p/1c/6f
2 tbs Miracle Whip Light 42 cal, 0p/4c/3f
pasta w/extra lean ground beef & red sauce 457 cal, 41p/55c/10f
protein bar 190 cal, 15p/13c/9f

Totals: 2580 cal, 217p/283c/79f

Average for this past week: 2494 cal, 205p/278c/74f 31% prot., 43% carb, 26% fat
Average for past month: 2598 cal, 206p/266c/88f 31% prot, 39% carb, 30% fat

EDIT - Added 1oz raw almonds which increased protein to 172 and cals to 2637. Obviously, I need to replace fat & carb cals with protein to get to 240; so choices will have to be smarter. Still a lot of food, IMO.

 

[Totentanz]

Re: fats/carbs. Typically it's the carbs that make me feel too full, although it depends on how you react to things. I actually tend to keep fats a bit higher myself. You might consider a gainer shake before bed as well. Don't get too hung up on "eating clean" because it's a myth. How do you feel when consuming carbs vs fats?

Regarding protein... at your size I recommend closer to 300 grams. When bulking, I aim for 300-400 minimum, and you and I are around the same bodyweight region.

Sorry for the brief post, busy tonight but I'll come back to this later.

 

[T-man]

Man, that's going to be alot of food. I don't think I have any issue with carbs & fats, but the best I've done with protein recently was 232. I think protein shakes will be the highest protein/lowest calorie way to do it. Thanks for the input.

 

[T-man]

Update: This week I was able to maintain weight while getting an average of 2700 calories with 277g protein & 77g fats. I think my metabolism is finally getting fixed. Still work to do, though.