cutting frequency

N

noobie

New Member
Hey guys, it's been a long while since i've gotten in here and done some good, so I'm back after first year of college bulked up to 210 and cut down to about 190 over the summer. Strength is all up, bench,dead,squat, are all a good bit above 200 which is a feat for me. I was wondering about the frequency of workouts for cutting. Does everybody say only train 3 days a week to avoid burnout ? or is there a reason why we shuldn't train 4-6times a week HST style, or 5x5 for cutting. I always thought that the more freq you train muscle, the more overall metabolic fatigue you are placing on it and more trauma = muscle gain. In theory wouldn't that mean better cut cycle other than energy loss?


I've been taking some support supps that help with energy and joint recovery a good bit. I'm trying to figure out what I shuld do for the last 5-10 lbs of my cut. thanks for the help guys


pzhang
 
I would say 4 times a week is plenty.

Some guys here have done more...but I dont see the benefit in it....unless you are just wanting to burn calories and not do any cardio.

I just did a cut this past summer on 4 days a week and it worked well.

Just keep your sets to 2 or 3 at best...per exercise and lift heavy.

You are not going to gain any muscle so just maintain what you have.

You could always do standard 3 day hst routine with cardio on off days....or up hst routine to 4 days a week with lower volume.

Or upper/lower split..with one day of cardio.

The main thing is to lift heavy at least 2 a week...and burn more calories than you take in every day...along with good protein intake.
 
Awesome joe. But my main question is, what is the problem with higher freq training during a cut? is the ONLY worry the energy issue? or is there performance loss, loss in strength, etc. I'm doing bill star's 5x5 and all assistance exercises on off days, so off days are pretty easy. I just want to figure out all the aspects of "losses" during a cutt cycle, for instance:


lower volume = more maintained mass,
greater volume loss of mass,
greater freq = higher metabolic fatigue but loss in mass, etc.
greater load = more maintained mass, less metabolic fatigue
stuff like that.


but I do totally agree with you that doing the standard 3 week with cardio on off days works effectively. I'm just experimenting right now =)
 
Noob

It might not work that well due to the lack of energy because of calory deficit!

Unless of course you try to eat some carbs around the training time and use the partitioning to your advantage but I am certainly no expert in that area!
 
Basically if you are in a strict calorie deficit you could tear down muscle working with weights everyday.

Dont get me wrong you can do it everyday...but volume and sets would have to be minimal.

With sets and volume being that low...you are not really burning any calories...so the question is what would be the benefit?

Only benefit I see is if you really hate cardio.

I have done 4 days a week training and I have also lost good weight doing it...but IMO...I cut too much this past summer and lost some muscle b/c of it.

Ideally if you have time...I would do full body routine with heavy ...heavy weighs 2 a week and just do your cardio and maybe abs on the other days.

During a cut all you are tyring to do is get rid of bodyfat and maintain as much muscle as possible.

So if you are watching your daily calories and they are 250 to 500 below your maintance then just do some cardio and weights 2 a week.

If you really want to hit the weights everyday...I would only go 100 to 200 below maintenance on the calories...to me that becomes to much to keep up with...but it is do able....if watch correctly.

Long story short you want to cut...but not cut to quickly.
biggrin.gif
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Only benefit I see is if you really hate cardio.</div>
Basically that's it. You can lift weights everyday in order to create a calorie deficit which would otherwise be accomplished through cardio. Of course during a cut you will not have the same exercise tolerance (due to lack of energy), so you should watch your volume. Remember, your main concerns during a cut is to lose fat and maintain muscle and strength (muscle gains when cutting are almost impossible for an experienced lifter in my opinion).

So, I would suggest what the other guys have already said, 3 times a week weightlifting and cardio on off days (weightlifting for maintaining muscle and cardio to burn calories).

Cheers,
Dimitris
 
I'm with the others. I don't think higher frequency is beneficial during a cut. It can sap your strength, which you want to keep up so you can keep lifting heavy. Filling in the other days with cardio is the best bet, imo. I prefer to do one day (or two at most) as intervals and the other days steady state cardio. I think intervals more than once or twice a week is too much when cutting, especially if you are weight training your legs two or three times a week.

I think 5x5 is okay during a cut, but don't do much assistance work. Just stick to the basics. If you can maintain your strength in the core lifts, you should be able to hang on to most of your lean mass.
 
Yes, it can sap strength if you do too much volume and cut too many calories. I hate cardio, so I did light-moderate olympic lifting on my &quot;off&quot; days during my cut. I did a 3x5 for a couple of months and then a 5x5 MWF and did pretty good.

You need to strike a balance and it may take some experimenting to see what your body can tolerate as far as volume, frequency and calories. Again, a daliy journal of calories is invaluble.
 
What I have learned through experience in the past two and a half cycles is an echo of what others such as 9to5 and Toten said. Stick to 3x/week with cardio on off days to give you the caloric deficit and rest days for recovery and strength.

I am doing another cutting cycle (hopefully my last) this fall. The plan is do 6x/week - 3 days/week AM/PM split as the increased frequency on MWF lifting days has worked well for me in the past.

Quick question: Should I eat at maintenance or cut on the lifting days due to the increased frequency. My thinking, is that in the entire realm of things through the week, it doesn't matter, and I should just to a flat cut of 500 calories under maintenace per day.
 
Yeah, I'd keep it at 500 per day unless you find you are really fatigued those days, but I doubt you will be. 500 isn't that huge of a deficit anyway.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, I'd keep it at 500 per day unless you find you are really fatigued those days, but I doubt you will be. 500 isn't that huge of a deficit anyway.</div>

Yeah, but more than 500 could aid muscle loss.
 
Yeah, but it depends on a variety of factors. I've done PSMF and UD2.0, both of which have you on a huge deficit and didn't have a problem, but it did drain my strength significantly. That's pretty much all I was referring to - that strength loss/fatigue shouldn't be too bad on a 500 calorie deficit. Even if fatigue was bad, you could always just pop some caffeine pills or something and you'd be good during the workout.
 
popping caffeine pills is what i've been doing for a bit. High freq always worked well with me, but I do agree that muscle loss is a bit high. I just feel like I'm not getting in enough if I only do 2x a week, and the rest is up to cardio. Almost feels like mini SD's between days I work out. I'll give it a whirl though. Thanks for the input, anymore would be great =)
 
I prefer to do more frequent, shorter workouts during a cut. i feel it keeps my metabolism at its best. during a cut i lift no less than 5x/week, and as much as 10x. i alternate between two programs that look like this:


a:
incline bench
rows
db lat raises
leg press
db shrugs

b:
dips
pullups
shoulder press
stiff legged deads
calf raises


ill throw in some cardio in the afternoons when the metabolism slows down. i have never kept as much strength as i did using the above. most movements saw no strength loss what so ever and i cut last time going from 16% to 11% bf.
 
<div>
(noobie @ Aug. 19 2006,13:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">popping caffeine pills is what i've been doing for a bit. High freq always worked well with me, but I do agree that muscle loss is a bit high. I just feel like I'm not getting in enough if I only do 2x a week, and the rest is up to cardio. Almost feels like mini SD's between days I work out. I'll give it a whirl though. Thanks for the input, anymore would be great =)</div>
cut out the pills and cut more cals or increase activity.
 
Why? Caffeine boosts metabolism. It isn't harmful. Aside from the fact that cutting calories can make you tired, caffeine can also help fight hunger. If anything, I would recommend you try to find some ephedrine and take that with the caffeine to boost your metabolism further.
 
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