Did you try AAS?

ROCCOdoesDubai

New Member
Hi All

I am wondering if anyone out there in HST land has trained for several years, including HST style and did not get any results naturally.

Did you then move to AAS and achieve some lasting perminent results?

I am thinking that if you can't get results naturally [yes, yes, train HST method, eat more food but for some that still does not do the trick], then if a person attempts steroids then they will grow, if they do it right.

But that the growth may not be perminent. Perhaps only people that would naturally grow large would benefit and those not suited to being naturally large would only incur temp. muscle growth, which would quickly fade away after say 12 months [we assume both trainee's would continue training, etc..]



Any takers?

Thanks
Rocco
 
If you absolutely can't grow more muscle naturally, and then you use steriods to get bigger, then whatever growth you have won't be permanent unless you also permanently take steriods forever and ever. If the muscle you gained is truly beyond what your body could have made naturally, then it won't be able to support it without assistance, so you will start to lose them when you stop steriods.

Btw, have you had your testosterone levels? IF you truly can't grow more muscle, and you aren't the hulk yet, that's most probably the villain. I remember your previous thread, so I'm sorry you still aren't gaining muscle. I think it is really time to have your testosterone levels checked, if you haven't already.

Regards,
-JV
 
Yeah get your levels checked. I am on HRT and it is a great thing if you really need it.

If you are following HST (or any other program for that matter) and see zero results, you probably have a medical problem. I know alot of guys think their test levels must be fine because the have lots of body hair and dont have ED. Wrong!
 
If the guys are right in their suspicions and your test levels could be shot, then you should definitely get it checked out. HRT could be a big help. DON'T CYCLE though. Go get legitimate HRT if you need it, don't mess around with AAS. It's not worth the potential legal troubles, especially if you can get it legally from a doc.
 
<div>
(Spyke @ Jul. 25 2006,07:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah get your levels checked. I am on HRT and it is a great thing if you really need it.

If you are following HST (or any other program for that matter) and see zero results, you probably have a medical problem. I know alot of guys think their test levels must be fine because the have lots of body hair and dont have ED. Wrong!</div>
Not sure I agree with this one, have you seen some of the programs out there? But we can safely say that if you see no results with a proper HST program and diet, then something is not right. I'd guess you'd have to be at least 22 lbs/10kgs above your non-trained LBM to be genetically maxed out though, even with test on the low side of normal. If you had clinically low test you'd probably have other symptoms as well.

Actually, if you are eating for size and HSTing but not gaining muscle, you should at least be getting fat! So if you are not putting on fat you are not consuming enough calories!
 
<div>
(berserk @ Jul. 25 2006,08:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Actually, if you are eating for size and HSTing but not gaining muscle, you should at least be getting fat! So if you are not putting on fat you are not consuming enough calories!</div>
exactly! EAT, train, rest, EAT!!!
 
<div>
(berserk @ Jul. 25 2006,08:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Spyke @ Jul. 25 2006,07:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah get your levels checked. I am on HRT and it is a great thing if you really need it.

If you are following HST (or any other program for that matter) and see zero results, you probably have a medical problem. I know alot of guys think their test levels must be fine because the have lots of body hair and dont have ED. Wrong!</div>
Not sure I agree with this one, have you seen some of the programs out there? But we can safely say that if you see no results with a proper HST program and diet, then something is not right. I'd guess you'd have to be at least 22 lbs/10kgs above your non-trained LBM to be genetically maxed out though, even with test on the low side of normal. If you had clinically low test you'd probably have other symptoms as well.

Actually, if you are eating for size and HSTing but not gaining muscle, you should at least be getting fat! So if you are not putting on fat you are not consuming enough calories!</div>
I was just pointing out that by doing any type of resistence training for a couple YEARS should produce some results. Maybe not great results but something. LOL
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Not sure I agree with this one...

...if you are eating for size and HSTing but not gaining muscle, you should at least be getting fat! So if you are not putting on fat you are not consuming enough calories!</div>
You may be a little confused because he didn't mention it here explicitly, but he did mention it in a previous thread. All he gains is fat. Now he's made another thread to ask if AAS is a good alternative. This is why we recommended to have his testosterone levels checked, because, as he outlined in his previous thread, he was doing everything right - from exercise selection, volume, frequency, even diet - and yet only gains fat. Now he's really fed up and asks about AAS, hence our prodding to have his testosterone levels checked first, as AAS is really not permanent.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

Regards,
-JV
 
This is a post by Iron Addict in another forum.  He knows his stuff.  Thought this might help.  

Here are some of the primary reasons most trainees don’t grow:

You overtrain and under eat. These are listed as the main primary reason because they go hand in hand and BOTH must be balanced or you can forget growth. The most perfect training regimen will fail miserably if diet is not there to support it. And conversely, the most perfect diet will be wasted if the trainee is doing more workload than they can recover from—most do WAY too much!

The training workload is not varied. Doing the exact same lift the same way stops being productive for most trainees within 3-8 weeks. Once the body has adapted to the loading it must be changed if you are to continue to force the body to adapt.

Too much focus on isolation exercises, not enough compound work. You can do all the “small” lifts until you are blue in the face, but until you are moving big poundage’s in the big lifts you will remain small. Which brings up point #4.

You MUST squat and deadlift if you are going to reach your bodies growth potential. Think it through. Doing squats or deads activates 70-85% of the bodies overall musculature in one move. Doing a set of curls maybe 3-5%. Which sends a big signal that the body better get better at synthesizing protein and better at handling the need to grow as a unit? You will NEVER reach your potential without doing the squats and deads.

You constantly fluctuate between lifts that have bad carry-over. Here is an example
I have seen many times, and one I have done myself. The trainee burns out on benching and decides to do Hammer Strength Benches for a change. He makes the switch and is jazzed. His Hammer press is going up every week and he is stoked. After a time he has added 50 lbs to his Hammer bench and decides to go back and hit the bench, only to find it’s up a whole 10 lbs!!!!!


That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with Hammer Benches. It just means that the lifts are dissimilar enough that an increase in one may not necessarily help increase the lift on another. Use of stabilizers and inter and intra-muscular coordination are two primary reasons, along with neural recruitment pattern gains that don’t apply well to the other lift.

You don’t know when to de-load/cruise, or take time off. NO ONES body takes a constant pounding of hard training without periods of active or full rest recovery. Until you learn how and when to don this your training will never be optimal

Your micro-nutrient support SUCKS! I can’t count the number of guys I have seen trying to build great physiques taking a “one a day” vitamin and thinking they have it covered. If you want great things out of your body, you need to put great fuel in it.

You train with the intensity of an arthritic old lady. Nuff said.

You have no clearly defined goals. Most people just “lift to get bigger”, and while this is a fine goal, not having and strength related goals will kill your progress in the long run. Your primary goal should be getting stronger on the big lifts on a CONSTANT basis. Setting short and long-term strength goals and achieving them is what equals a big strong trainee in the long run.

You are inconsistent. Getting excited about your training and killing yourself in the gym only to burn out and few weeks later and miss a bunch of sessions ends up being 1 step forward, 3/4 steps backward for many trainees. Getting and staying consistent and racking up sustainable gains over the long-term is what it’s about.

You don’t do cardio. Most lifters don’t do cardio because they are convinced that it will impact their training. And they are right if they are talking about long duration high intensity cardio, or almost any high intensity cardio unless they work into it slowly. I suggest EVERYONE that doesn’t have a physical job that has them walking a lot during the day walk for at least 45 minutes a day. I also suggest 2-3 high intensity cardio sessions for everyone except extreme ecto’s. Don’t believe it, fine. Continue to get less than optimal results.

Your insulin sensitivity sucks. Trying to build a great body while having poor insulin sensitivity never works. You will always fight laying down bodyfat. You want the carbs to go to your muscles not your fat stores. And to the fat stores is where they go when glucose tolerance sucks.

You have poor sleep habits, Diet and training can be spot on, but if sleep sucks it isn’t going to happen. This not only includes getting the right amount of sleep, but getting it at the right time. All you guys and gals that stay up until 2:00 am and sleep late are creating a huge disadvantage for yourselves.

You are stressed. Diet, training, and sleep, and supplement support can all be dialed, but if you are a 24 hour stress machine you can forget solid gains. Stress releases a slew of stress hormones. Bottom line, stress hormones put the body in one mode; store bodyfat, catabolize muscle. Is this what you really want to do? Get a handle on your life stressors before they get a handle on you. As much as 75% of all illnesses are directly related to stress.

Too much outside activity. If your life is non-stop action til you drop, you are likely short circuiting the growth process. Many of you are involved in martial arts, have other physical hobbies and try to train 5-6 days a week. Not going to happen if max muscle mass is your goal. Balance is the key.

You jump from routine to routine. I see people on the forums changing their routines at the same rate many of them likely change their underwear. On one forum I frequent there is a guy that has done like 6 different routines in the last 10 weeks. You need at 17. least 4 weeks to determine a routines effectiveness. More in some cases dependent on structure. Find something that works, and has loading changes built into the framework that you are progressive with and use the damn thing.

You don’t believe in your training program. I am in the process of writing a full article on this so I will spare the details, but if you don’t believe in the program you are doing it is never going to work, simple as that. You WILL consciously or subconsciously sabotage something you are convinced won’t work. Simple as that.

The intensity or frequency of your workouts leaves CNS constantly drained. If CNS is continually dampened you will never be able to lift optimally. CNS drives every rep you do, and if it is beat to ****, you will never lift to your ability.

Iron Addict
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You MUST squat and deadlift if you are going to reach your bodies growth potential.</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Which sends a big signal that the body better get better at synthesizing protein and better at handling the need to grow as a unit</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You will NEVER reach your potential without doing the squats and deads.</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You train with the intensity of an arthritic old lady. Nuff said.</div>

Wow, there are some big statements in there! Sounds generally more like macho-gym folklore as opposed to evidence-based recommendations.
 
Iron Addict is a good guy when it comes to some stuff, but in the end, he's just a bro with plenty of bro-telligence. You don't need to &quot;switch it up bro&quot; every 6-8 weeks to continue growing. As long as you can keep adding weight to the bar, you are fine. Of course, since we all practice HST, we already know this.
You CAN grow without squats or deads. I personally know people who have gotten huge without them (well, two guys, but still...)
 
<div>
(stevejones @ Jul. 26 2006,18:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is a post by Iron Addict in another forum.  He knows his stuff.  Thought this might help.  

Here are some of the primary reasons most trainees don’t grow:

You overtrain and under eat. These are listed as the main primary reason because they go hand in hand and BOTH must be balanced or you can forget growth. The most perfect training regimen will fail miserably if diet is not there to support it. And conversely, the most perfect diet will be wasted if the trainee is doing more workload than they can recover from—most do WAY too much!

The training workload is not varied. Doing the exact same lift the same way stops being productive for most trainees within 3-8 weeks. Once the body has adapted to the loading it must be changed if you are to continue to force the body to adapt.

Too much focus on isolation exercises, not enough compound work. You can do all the “small” lifts until you are blue in the face, but until you are moving big poundage’s in the big lifts you will remain small. Which brings up point #4.

You MUST squat and deadlift if you are going to reach your bodies growth potential. Think it through. Doing squats or deads activates 70-85% of the bodies overall musculature in one move. Doing a set of curls maybe 3-5%. Which sends a big signal that the body better get better at synthesizing protein and better at handling the need to grow as a unit? You will NEVER reach your potential without doing the squats and deads.

You constantly fluctuate between lifts that have bad carry-over. Here is an example
I have seen many times, and one I have done myself. The trainee burns out on benching and decides to do Hammer Strength Benches for a change. He makes the switch and is jazzed. His Hammer press is going up every week and he is stoked. After a time he has added 50 lbs to his Hammer bench and decides to go back and hit the bench, only to find it’s up a whole 10 lbs!!!!!


That doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with Hammer Benches. It just means that the lifts are dissimilar enough that an increase in one may not necessarily help increase the lift on another. Use of stabilizers and inter and intra-muscular coordination are two primary reasons, along with neural recruitment pattern gains that don’t apply well to the other lift.

You don’t know when to de-load/cruise, or take time off. NO ONES body takes a constant pounding of hard training without periods of active or full rest recovery. Until you learn how and when to don this your training will never be optimal

Your micro-nutrient support SUCKS! I can’t count the number of guys I have seen trying to build great physiques taking a “one a day” vitamin and thinking they have it covered. If you want great things out of your body, you need to put great fuel in it.

You train with the intensity of an arthritic old lady. Nuff said.

You have no clearly defined goals. Most people just “lift to get bigger”, and while this is a fine goal, not having and strength related goals will kill your progress in the long run. Your primary goal should be getting stronger on the big lifts on a CONSTANT basis. Setting short and long-term strength goals and achieving them is what equals a big strong trainee in the long run.

You are inconsistent. Getting excited about your training and killing yourself in the gym only to burn out and few weeks later and miss a bunch of sessions ends up being 1 step forward, 3/4 steps backward for many trainees. Getting and staying consistent and racking up sustainable gains over the long-term is what it’s about.

You don’t do cardio. Most lifters don’t do cardio because they are convinced that it will impact their training. And they are right if they are talking about long duration high intensity cardio, or almost any high intensity cardio unless they work into it slowly. I suggest EVERYONE that doesn’t have a physical job that has them walking a lot during the day walk for at least 45 minutes a day. I also suggest 2-3 high intensity cardio sessions for everyone except extreme ecto’s. Don’t believe it, fine. Continue to get less than optimal results.

Your insulin sensitivity sucks. Trying to build a great body while having poor insulin sensitivity never works. You will always fight laying down bodyfat. You want the carbs to go to your muscles not your fat stores. And to the fat stores is where they go when glucose tolerance sucks.

You have poor sleep habits, Diet and training can be spot on, but if sleep sucks it isn’t going to happen. This not only includes getting the right amount of sleep, but getting it at the right time. All you guys and gals that stay up until 2:00 am and sleep late are creating a huge disadvantage for yourselves.

You are stressed. Diet, training, and sleep, and supplement support can all be dialed, but if you are a 24 hour stress machine you can forget solid gains. Stress releases a slew of stress hormones. Bottom line, stress hormones put the body in one mode; store bodyfat, catabolize muscle. Is this what you really want to do? Get a handle on your life stressors before they get a handle on you. As much as 75% of all illnesses are directly related to stress.

Too much outside activity. If your life is non-stop action til you drop, you are likely short circuiting the growth process. Many of you are involved in martial arts, have other physical hobbies and try to train 5-6 days a week. Not going to happen if max muscle mass is your goal. Balance is the key.

You jump from routine to routine. I see people on the forums changing their routines at the same rate many of them likely change their underwear. On one forum I frequent there is a guy that has done like 6 different routines in the last 10 weeks. You need at 17. least 4 weeks to determine a routines effectiveness. More in some cases dependent on structure. Find something that works, and has loading changes built into the framework that you are progressive with and use the damn thing.

You don’t believe in your training program. I am in the process of writing a full article on this so I will spare the details, but if you don’t believe in the program you are doing it is never going to work, simple as that. You WILL consciously or subconsciously sabotage something you are convinced won’t work. Simple as that.

The intensity or frequency of your workouts leaves CNS constantly drained. If CNS is continually dampened you will never be able to lift optimally. CNS drives every rep you do, and if it is beat to ****, you will never lift to your ability.

Iron Addict</div>
hmmm....this is familiar....is this from the BN forum?
 
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