do you get pi55ed of

F

faz

Active Member
explaining to people on other forums or in the gym that HST is not just a FBW,that it is a set of principals and can be ajusted to suit.

everyone looks at the eg routine and pigeon holes HST as that routine,maybe bryan should put more eg routines like splits or push/pull examples what do you guys reckon.
 
Absolutely , one of my pet peeves... 15 , 10 and 5 reps; full body workouts etc.etc. have become how HST is percieved - as if it's a "program" and not "principles". OTOH , I understand how many who may not want to put in the effort to understand the whys and hows benefit from a cookie cutter template.

I definitely think that HST has become pigeon holed needlessly and am a firm believer that many would be making much better progress on A/B or intelligently designed splits .

What If I am doing several weeks of 10x3 , several weeks of 6x3 , several weeks of 3x3 and a week of 5x1 in an exersize with progressive loading , started with submaximal loads , using a push pull split and deload or unload at the end - am I doing HST? Well, I'm using HST principles yet most wouldn't make the mental connection between that routine and "HST". When is a program "HST"?

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thats why i think it would be a good idea to put some variations of HST up on the front page so people who are to lazy to read it all cant pigeon hole it.

the problem is not the people who read it all its the ones that read a bit then go on other forums and post titbits of HST and claim thats all it is,there was a guy the other day who posted (is the first effective set enough for hypertrophy) and said this is what HST claim
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Hey guys....(dont take this the wrong way)
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I respectfully disagree.

But I can see how we at HST or HST are pigeoned holed.

Because in my opinion HST is decribed by the vanilla routine.

I see a lot of guys on this forum doing some crazy....crazy stuff and then calling it HST because they are increasing load every workout.

The fact of the matter is a lot of routines out there...base there routine off a progressive overload...but that doesn't make them HST training.

I mean in our world you could say it has hst training principals therefor its HST...but I don't think that is how HST has been marketed or interprited.

Take for example Lyles Macdonalds bulking routine...it follows every principal in the book for hypertrophy...but no one else call it HST training.

Even though it produces a ton of hypertrophy (maybe even more than our own HST routine here).

I guess what I am trying to say is all of us veterans who have been around here for a while understand the principals of hypertrophy.

We understand the principals of a lot of things....but in my mind HST has always been a 3 time a week training program...or the more advance 6 time a week upper / lower split.

Once you get outside of that spectrum of training program...In my humble opinion its not HST anymore....its simple a program that may have some characteristics that create hypertrophy.

In other words if it was all about the principals then others routines that are very similar like Lyles,Waterbury, MAX stim...etc would all call themselves HST...which they don't.

So to make a long story short (sort of)
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.....IMO when I or others here say we train HST I would think the majority of the public would think we use the HST template that is on the main page.

There are a couple guys here who hit each muscle group 1 a week (look in training logs).

They are making progress and look damn good (some of them).

But I would say they are making progress because they understand hypertrophy,nutrition...progressive overload etc.

I wouldn't look at them who are training 1 a week and say they are training HST style even though they are adhereing to some of the principals.

What do you guys think....just my 2 cents!
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if you do
push m,w,f
pull t,th,s
increasing the weight every session,doing 15s,10s,5s, for 8wks then SD thats still HST.
and the same would apply to a 3 bodypart split done 6x a wk.

they are still using the priciples of HST

also some do 12s,8s,5s, etc some do 3x15s 4x10s 5x5s its all still HST

when you do once a wk or training to faliure every session etc then your not using HST.
 
I see what you are saying...not that I think you are wrong...because I think you are right.

But only the veterans here IMO are going to know what you are talking about.

I say this only because like you said earlier...the only routine that is illustrated by Bryan is the one on the main page which is what 999 out of 1,000 people are going to think HST is.

I know thats how I interpreted it many years ago.
 
I guess what I am saying is people are going to relate to a routine the easiest way possible.

So to me HST for the masses are going to think vanilla hst on main page.

They are not going to look at Lyles Bulking routines which follows everything you said above Faz and say hey thats HST.

People tend to look very short sighted
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Imho the two key factors which differentiate HST from most other approaches are:

1) High frequency training
2) The intentional use of "strategic deconditioning" between cycles.

I'm actually still surprised how much #2 has fallen out of favor and/or ignored in a lot of people's "HST"-ish routines.

In regards to increasing load over time, HST is actually handling this on two simultaneous ends, which people also seem to forget.  Not only is the pattern of loading in all exercises increasing over time (i.e. between cycles), load is increased EVERY time you lift on a session to session basis to stay ahead of the adaptive curve of the RBE.  Or "anabolic potential" or whatever the proper term for the "reduced hypertrophic potential" is.
 
HST is explained by the four principles that will naturally include many programs available

The principles are not limited by the standard HST template
 
When I was last training at a commercial gym nobody had heard of HST so there were no preconceived ideas about it. It was always hard to explain HST in a nutshell between sets so, after a few attempts, I decided it was best to avoid trying to do so unless someone was obviously very keen to know. One guy asked if I could set up a routine and print out a cycle for him. I gave him the web address!

I respectfully beg to differ with Joe; the thing that originally attracted me to HST was that it was a set of four (main) principles with which to build a training program and not a specific program per se. Sure, there's a template to give everyone a frame of reference and some idea how to apply the principles but, generally speaking, if you have the experience, knowledge and understanding of what works well for you individually then that and the HST principles are all you need to set up a very effective routine.

It's good to remember that HST is all about hypertrophy so it isn't going to be ideal for strength or performance, especially if you are maintaining body weight for competition.

It probably goes without saying that if hypertrophy based training is to be progressive there will have to be strength gains along the way too. If there aren't any strength gains then there isn't much chance that there are any size gains either - although accumulated fatigue can mask strength gains towards the end of a cycle, at which point a period of deloading or SD can allow strength gains to shine through during the following cycle.

If you're only focussing on muscle gain (which I did for a year or so) then I don't think you can do much to beat a 3 x weekly FBW while sticking to HST principles. Of course, you have to have your nutrition dialled in if you want to ensure you keep gaining muscle while preventing your bf levels from spiralling out of control (which I didn't get right). How you set up an HST cycle will also depend on what stage in your lifting career you are at when you start HST; the template routine might be fine for someone new'ish' to training but it could likely be improved for a more experienced trainee by making at least a few changes.

For me at least, HST is most definitely not all about 3 x weekly FB workouts. It is all about hypertrophy and not everyone has that as their goal - which is one reason why a lot of the logs reflect very different styles of training.

If you only look at the cover of a book, you don't get much out of it!  
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agree with nearly all the above posts but my point was,people seem to pigeon hole HST as a 3x a wk FBW,because they see the example workout,and although most guys with knowledge of training can see past this,alot of newbies or less knowledgable guys cant,so maybe putting in another few alternative examples would be a good idea.
 
Maybe this quote by Emerson would help too:

"If you learn only methods, you'll be tied to your methods, but if you learn principles you can devise your own methods." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
You know, the sad thing is...

 Using 'principles' requires one to think, and it seems there are fewer and fewer participants in this exercise.

 I've had quite a few people ask me what I do and I give them the 'short' version; then point them to this website.

 They get here and read a few things and then decide it's too much trouble (or so they say, I suspect there is a big 'duh' on their face).

 I remember when I first came to this website, I spent two weeks just learning.

 But these same people will get a bodybuilding mag with a listed routine only a drug filled, genetically superior behemoth could possibly do and they will try to follow it to the letter!

 This sure seems like a lot more trouble than learning 'how' and 'why' and then being able to design a routine around it.

 They could save themselves a lot of time, energy, frustration injuries, etc if they would just engage a few neurons and try to understand some things before they start.

Humans....a funny group
 
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