Do you lose size during SD?

[KungFuJoe]

Just wondering if it's expected to lose some size during SD or if 9-14 days is too little to lose muscle mass.

 

[Lol]

Proabably a little, but it'll soon return once you are back. You will definitely 'think' you are loosing some mass as you will loose a bit of the tightness and pumped feeling that you get from training. Don't forget to eat at maintenance so you aren't forcing your body to look elsewhere for fuel.

 

[colby2152]

and keep the protein intake up

 

[Fausto]

Here's an old thread from good ol'Lyle MacDonald that should at least give some kind of scientific explanation for this thing called SD.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Two goals of SD:
The first is general recovery (neural, muscular) after the entire cycle.
The second goal is as important: detraining lets the increased connective tissue go away so that you can get more easy damage when you start the next cycle.

That is, at the end of 8 weeks of continuous training (or whatever the exact numbers are), damage is too hard to generate because of increased connective tissue (and the practical realities that you can only add weight for SO long before you get hurt).

A week off (strategic deconditioning) lets some of that CT adaptation dissipate so that damage (and hence growth) is easier the next cycle.

You also have to hope that connective tissue adaptations go away faster (or to a greater degree) than the size increases, which is supported by data (the early de-adaptation to training is neural first).

As well, if you did the eccentrics, you should have a delayed training effect that keeps growth going as the connective tissue is going away. Well, hopefully.
</div>

and...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">First and foremost, the week off will give you some time to heal (on top of another critical component).

As well, starting with the higher reps gives you more time to heal, jacks up blood flow to the joints, and has hormonal effects that may help with connective tissue healing and injury.</div>

and...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ok, negatives and the week off since they are related. If there' a reason folks stop growing (well, there are lots of reasons) here's the one nobody every mentions.

As you train, your body increases the amount of connective tissue within your muscular structures. This is geared towards one thing: decreasing muscle damage from training. </div>

Yeah, I think that about sums it up.

So as Colby pointed out, during this rather unwanted period

keep up the protein intake and nutrition unless you have put on more fat than you desire (in which case you cut down 500 calories or so) and your muscles will end up saying &quot;thanks for coming&quot;

 

[MrNasty]

You dont lose sizer, per say, but instead the muscle will lose muscle glycogen stores which contribute to muscle fullness or size. You should quickly rebound after SD.

 

[intensum]

This is my first real SD. It's following after a 2 month long cut, during which I lost a few pounds of muscle. Because of chest surgery, my SD has to last 2-2 1/2 weeks, and it's pretty damn frustrating.

For instance, I've been eating at, and sometimes slightly below, maintenance the entire time, and have gained back fat I worked hard to cut. I do feel like there has been some muscle loss, as well (but this might have to do with taking a break from CEE).

Maybe this should be a new thread, but I don't know if I should start off my next lean bulk with a brief cut, or if the metabolic boost that should come when my lost muscle rebounds would help the general body recomposition.

 

[intensum]

[double post]

 

[intensum]

Any advice?

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Lyle has also stated since then that the need for SD is really unfounded in terms of resetting the effective weights for muscle growth. For general time off, sure, it's nice. Gets you psyched to go at it again and gives you some rest. But other than that? Nothing big, and certainly not necessary. If it were, then no one but HSTers would be growing.

 

[mostlyallan]

So are you saying theres no need for SD? We already know that other lifters outside HST make gains but when they try it they improve.

Wouldnt it be more accurate to say that SD is not NECESSARY but more EFFECTIVE at producing results and delaying plateaus?

 

[Fausto]

I agree with Neebone.

Intemsum - because of teh fat gain during this forced SD, I'd saty at maintenance and go for the next program until things ar eback on track and then think of including a bulking program.