Do you think we are losing something

[Sun-Tzu]

For example when we start our first workout of 10's we could actually do 13-14 reps because it's lower than our 10rm.

Is it worth it to do the extra reps or is it negligible?

I've been thinking lately to get the most out of muscles I should do a routine that was like this:

First 2 weeks of 15's (do as many reps as possible to get the burn with that weight regardless if its 15 or 20 reps)

Second 2 weeks of 10's (Do as many reps as possible until I almost fatique. So 1st workout: 14 reps, 2nd workout 14 reps, 3rd workout 13 reps, etc until I reached my 10rm at the end of the 2 weeks)

Then repeat same idea for my 2 weeks of 5's.

It's just sometimes during my first workouts of 15's, 10's and 5's I'm not getting as much out of muscle as I could because I'm stopping at 15 or 10 or 5 reps. Wouldn't it also be more true to HST to do it like this as you are still progressively loading while keeping the volume consistent to match. The 15, 10, 5 reps where taught just to keep it simple anyway right?

 

[Joe.Muscle]

Sun-Tzu...I see what you are saying. I dont have the scientific answer to this..nor do I think we really need one.

I think as long as you are not hitting failure then you will be ok to do more reps. Now if you are talking about reping out as many reps as you can...and hitting failure everytime to see how many you can get then this could potentially lead you to overtraining the CNS.

I personally think regardless of the rep range unless its too high or low, you will be ok doing roughly more reps.

If you continue each work to up the load and you are not hitting failure then you are right on. I too get to caught up in reps and sets sometimes. Remember the 15 10 5 was just a guideline for Bryan to make it easy for mass of people.

Long story short if you are keeping your frequency up to 3 times a week and increasing load everywork...you should be making gains.

 

[Old and Grey]

Good question. Here is how I address it:

HST variation

 

[colby2152]

This is why I do as much as I can; an extra partial work set to top me off; obviously without going to failure.

 

[Old and Grey]

I couldn't set up a proper link for some reason. Look for a thread entitled 'HST/HIT/SS.'

 

[Lol]

O & G's link

Hope that saves a bit of searching time

I always do more reps during the first week of each cycle 'if' I feel that I have recovered fully from the previous session. So I play it by ear. I always get my required reps but whether I do more is down to how I feel on the day. Personally, I feel that after a hard RM session at the end of a mesocycle it is quite beneficial not to push it too hard on the next few workouts. Just be sure to get your reps in and your CNS is given a little less stress to deal with. This is where zig-zagging can be a benefit rather than something to avoid. You then start building towards the next all-out RM session.

Starting a new cycle, when the loads are at their lightest and after a week or so of SD, I have no worries about doing 20-25 reps if I can (though not to failure) to get a really good burn going. I love doing that for squats and deads. The pump after the set is completed is pretty intense and you have to breathe like a steam train for a few minutes just to get your breath back.

 

[lcars]

this is why my workout goes down in reps like this:
16,14,12,10,8,6,4,321. the 15,10,5 rep scheme is a guide line(an effective one)and can be tweeked to fit your routine.

 

[Totentanz]

You could also just abandon sets and always cluster to a certain number of reps, say 20 reps for instance. I did that for a cycle and it worked brilliantly. It enables you to do much more volume than you would normally be able to handle.

 

[Sun-Tzu]

Thanks guys, and Tots thats exactly what I've been thinking. I just felt like I was mentally blocking myself when I'm thinking ok only go to 5 and stop.

 

[Fausto]

Sun Tzu san...

You have just found the "holy grail" beware though of getting too close to or even hitting failure too often as it'll burn you!

Otherwise that is but another tweak that wortks for many of us, to me it did not make much diffference as I took out all zig zagging off my program so...I'm tru to strength most of the time...but it is defintely a way to go...and there is already proof (Tot)

 

[liegelord]

I did a few cycles lke this where I did not stop at 15, 10 or 5, I just ramped the weight each workout. It worked well, especially for strength. However, on the big exercises like squats and deadlifts, it can burn you out quicker, that's what happened to me this cycle, though that could be due more to cutting this cycle.

I decided (because I'm cutting) to just do 3x5 instead of 1x15 and it seems to be a lot less fatiguing.

 

[faz]

i do more than 15 but never go to faliure..this was recomended by dan moore..it keeps the tut longer and it feels better more like you are working harder

 

[Sun-Tzu]

After reading the number of sets thread I have a few more questions regarding my idea of doing more reps for the lighter weights. Since total reps is more important I was thinking of doing my first workout of the 5's like this: 1st set to 9 and then my 2nd to 6 reps to hit the total of 15 to keep it consistent throughout the cycle. Does this make sense or should I just do 3 sets of 9 (as I could handle that weight since it's my 9rm)?

Also is there any benefit of doing more sets to reach the total number of reps or is it better to do less? I understand Bryan is trying to keep the volume consistent as to minimize the volume variable, but it still feels like you are losing something when you don't push yourself right before failure each time. Then again I'm thinking maybe you don't because adaption hasn't taken place yet for the heavier weight and if I do add the additional volume per workout it will throw it off more, because now I'm decreasing volume while increasing load. It would be smarter to just increase the load while keeping the volume constant wouldn't it? It's not necessarily about working the muscle to near exhaustion, but rather adding additional stimulus (increased load) to the muscle to get it grow.

As time progresses though wouldn't you eventually have to add more total volume as your muscles will eventually not be able to lift more weight? I know the SD sort of allows for you muscles to de-condition, but eventually you will have to increase the volume to get them to grow more won't you?

Thanks an advance.

 

[choco]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also is there any benefit of doing more sets to reach the total number of reps or is it better to do less?</div>

it doesn`t matter !
the more load the more sets you need eventually ! and that is ok ! ... only be always sure that you dont go to failure.

That is exactly what i mentioned in my 2 posts in this thread:
click me

if you like, you can test it, it will work good for sure. many people are doing it here and use it. Or you can maybe &quot;pimp&quot; your classic hst a bit like fausto is doing

(the only thing that i personally dont like about the cluster hst training routine with such high reps like 40reps is that it could be very monotonous at the end of the cycle. but common, when you see you are bulking up that should be not the point to concern with

greets

 

[Sun-Tzu]

Yeah I'd be interested to see if the additional volume helps. So what about the total amount of reps. Should I just complete 15 regardless if I do 9 the first set and then 6 the second, or should I space them evenly, or go to near failure?

 

[style]

''It would be smarter to just increase the load while keeping the volume constant wouldn't it?''

Yes, thats why people complete whole cycles of a constant number of reps.

''So what about the total amount of reps. Should I just complete 15 regardless if I do 9 the first set and then 6 the second, or should I space them evenly, or go to near failure?''

I dont think it matters too much although the nearer failure you go the stress on your CNS is going to increase, but I wouldnt worry about doing it once.