does some degree of fatigue is necessary in a set?

[yaniv]

(warning: second language)

as any rest-pause technique demonstrate (max-stim is on the lead - but not the first to utilize the technique. I`m doing it for years in deadlifts/squats), fatigue isn't necessary.

the problem is that you need enough load in order to use fatigue managing technique. at the beginning of 15's/10's block, you start with non-demanding loads by the nature of hst. these loads are not beneficial for a major fiber recruitment. for better recruitment with such lite load, one can benefit from more volume to a point of 2-3 reps under failure. this according to the progressive fiber recruitment protocol.

should i strive for some fatigue? in my understanding of hst, there is no obligatory rep range (aside from the rm workout). or maybe the lite loads are by design, emphasizing the progressive loading rather load per say.

elaboration is needed, but in my time zone i should be sleeping...

 

[Lol]

I always do a shed load of reps early in the 15s when the loads are light. I'm after a burn but I still stop short of MM failure.

Light loads are definitely by design as you say but should not be too light. 50% of your 1RM is a good place to start, so if you are starting lighter than that then you may want to adjust your loads. Or, as you are probably building up to your 15RM over 6 workouts then starting at 75% of your 15RM should be fine too. Then add 5% per workout.

Don't forget that Strategic Deconditioning is the reason that sub-max loads can still be effective.

By the time you get to your 15RM w/o you will be enjoying all the fatigue you could ever want.

 

[dkm1987]

<div>
(yaniv @ Apr. 27 2007,22:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">(warning: second language)

as any rest-pause technique demonstrate  (max-stim is on the lead - but not the first to utilize the technique. I`m doing it for years in deadlifts/squats), fatigue isn't necessary.

the problem is that you need enough load in order to use fatigue managing technique. at the beginning of 15's/10's block, you start with non-demanding loads by the nature of hst. these loads are not beneficial for a major fiber recruitment. for better recruitment with such lite load, one can benefit from more volume to a point of 2-3 reps under failure. this according to the progressive fiber recruitment protocol.

should i strive for some fatigue? in my understanding of hst, there is no obligatory rep range (aside from the rm workout). or maybe the lite loads are by design, emphasizing the progressive loading rather load per say.

elaboration is needed, but in my time zone i should be sleeping...</div>
The issue and misconception is that that in order to stimulate or rather activate the type IIX fibers one has to pre fatigue the other myosin types. One way of doing is to of course induce a certain level of fatigue but this is not the only way.

Speed of contraction has a lot to do with activating different fiber populations and there are positives and negatives to doing this.

Force, generally when speed of contraction is fast the actually force that is exerted is lower than when the speed is slower. This is because the time of crossbridge attachment is lessened therefore less acto-myosin bonds are acting in concert.

Rate Coding, generally fast contractions increase rate coding to an extent that is higher than with slow contractions, even when the loads are lighter.

The amount of force needed to recruit all fibers varies between muscle groups but in general many of the peripheral muscles, we are working, activate the type II muscle MU at ~50%-70% MVC. Some of the muscles in the quads can actually use recruitment to increase force up to 80-90% MVC. Once all the MUs have been activated the only other means of increasing force output is through increased rate coding or MU synchronization.

Two things that cause type IIX fiber activation is

1. Repeated contractions, yes it's true, repeating contractions have been shown to decrease the thresholds of recruitment and hence earlier recruitment of faster fiber types, although it doesn't change the orderly recruitment it bring them into play sooner.

2. Faster contractions, some work looking at PCr (Phosphocreatine) utilization (a very reliable means of looking at activation) have shown that even in loads of only 30% MVC, type II activation can and does occur, and this was in the quads not the hand muscle as many like to cite.

So why not just work for fatigue? It does activate the type II's eventually after all.

There are other things that happen with fatigue as well. Such as slowing of the relaxtion time of the fiber which then directly impacts the ability of the fiber to activate. Force loss also occurs (besides what I just mentioned, through several other mechanisms as well) when fatigue develops this force loss is directly related to strain and it is strain afterall that has shown to be critical in impacting the hypertrophy stimulus.

I could go on more and talk more about rest between reps and their impact but this is about HST so I'll sum up for now by saying..........

There is nothing wrong with submaximal work and if done properly it may be more advantageous than working to higher fatigue levels.

 

[yaniv]

thank u for your answers.

lol: i`m already fallowing the &quot;75%-100%&quot; scheme on each block and doing sd. hst by the book.

dan: i`m applying a fast tempo and just under fatigue rep count for my light weight workouts (at the beginning of a block). i`m very strict about preventing strain - that is from being susceptible to it with high volume/frequency training. i`m &quot;build&quot; more for low+heavy. i just wondered why this matter isn't acknowledged in hst manifest. one with a lot of &quot;zigzaging&quot; can spend more then a few w/o with &quot;warmups weights&quot;, and doing them in an ordinarily manner, not achieving the utilization of most of his MU's.

its hard for me to express myself in English... i`m much more fluid in my native tongue.

peace in the middle east