Drop sets increase growth hormone

B

Bahiana

New Member
Check this out:

"A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men.

Goto K, Sato K, Takamatsu K.

Doctoral Program in Health and Sport Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Ibaraki, Japan.

AIM: The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of an additional set immediately following high intensity resistance exercise on growth hormone (GH) response. METHODS: Subjects (n=8) performed 4 resistance exercise protocols (bilateral knee extension exercise) on separate days. The protocols were categorized into 2 types of protocol, namely "Strength-up type (S-type)" and "Combination type (Combi-type)". The S-type was resistance exercise which consisted of 5 sets at 90% of 1 repetition maximum (RM) with 3-min rest periods between sets, whereas the Combi-type is a training protocol which adds an additional set (either 50% of 1 RM [C50-type], 70% of 1 RM [C70-type] or 90% of 1 RM [C90-type]) to the S-type. Serum GH concentration and blood lactate concentration were determined pre-exercise and at 0-60 min postexercise. Relative changes in thigh girth and maximal unilateral isometric strength were determined pre-exercise and immediately postexercise. RESULTS: The increasing values of GH concentration (DGH) in the S-type was the lowest of all protocols. On the other hand, DGH in the C50-type showed a significantly (p<0.05) higher increase than in the S-type and C90-type, and a relatively higher increase than in the C70-type. CONCLUSION: These results suggests that a high intensity, low volume training protocol to induce neural adaptation resulted in little GH response, but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....2853908

This supports using a drop set after the last heavy set during the 5s and negatives. Maybe a superset with an isolation exercise also will do the trick, but i think a compound movement will be more effective.
 
Yeah there's lots of evidence that suggests drop-sets are good for growth, so you might as well chuck one in at the end of your heavy 5s and negs. They feel good too
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Do you all see this as a tweak to HST, or is it a big enough finding to ad an entirely new principleto HST? I assume that HST can adapt and change as new research develops findings like this...
 
Eto: this is not new knowledge but, yes, HST will evolve as discoveries are made. I think SD is where most questions still lie.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Do you all see this as a tweak to HST, or is it a big enough finding to ad an entirely new principleto HST? I assume that HST can adapt and change as new research develops findings like this...</div>
I agree that HST should adapt according to valid emerging research, but this has been a part of the HST philosophy right from the beginning. Drop sets are mentioned in the FAQ as a means to increase metabolic work. Other methods can be found in the &quot;Pimp my HST&quot; e-book by Jules (high rep sets, rest-pause, static holds etc etc). It all falls under the &quot;metabolic work&quot; headline (erk1/2 pathway).

Regards,
Dimitris
 
Hey, this gives me a new question. In the 5s, I do three sets. By incorporating dropsets, my workout would increase to way over an hour. Should I do 2 sets by 5, then one drop set?
 
Eto: you may need to read up on some stuff on Dan's site to draw your own conclusions but it does seem that an extra heavy set is actually more effective for hypertrophy than a few lighter drop-sets. Just for fun, I have recently been throwing in a set of 10s after 5s using my current 15RM. It's good for a pump and a bit of extra work during post-5s.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just for fun, I have recently been throwing in a set of 10s after 5s using my current 15RM. It's good for a pump and a bit of extra work during post-5s. </div>
I do something like this myself. For example, after my work sets with weighted dips or weighted chins, I rest a little, drop all the extra weight and go for one final high-rep set (usually 10-20 reps, depending on the exercise, not to failure, just to feel the burn). As Lol said, good for a pump, and it only takes half a minute.

Cheers,
Dimitris

Edit: This final set does not replace any of my &quot;normal&quot; work sets. It is used as an extra, maybe every other workout.
 
<div>
(Fausto @ Oct. 16 2006,16:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I must say some newbies catch on fast...darn
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I took OG's advice a couple of months back and haven't looked back since...


I do 15s, 1 set
10s = 1 set of 10, followed by a dropset of 5reps
5s = set of 5, drop set of 5, drop set of 5


this way my workouts are MUCH faster and my gains are slightly better. Can't beat it!
 
Interesting report, jwbond. I'm curious for a few more details about your routine.

In particular, how many exercises per body part. For example, if you did back squats, front squats, leg extensions, deadlifts, and leg press, then reported good gains in your quads with only 1 work set at the heaviest weight it wouldn't be too noteworthy. You'd really have 5 heavy sets for quads, just spread between 5 exercises. If only 1-2 exercises for most body parts and you're still getting good results, then that's more newsworthy.

Thus my question.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">In particular, how many exercises per body part. For example, if you did back squats, front squats, leg extensions, deadlifts, and leg press, then reported good gains in your quads with only 1 work set at the heaviest weight it wouldn't be too noteworthy. You'd really have 5 heavy sets for quads, just spread between 5 exercises. If only 1-2 exercises for most body parts and you're still getting good results, then that's more newsworthy. </div>

A valid point LNTx, but if it turns out that it is just one set for a particular body part, then hey...&quot;a sticth in time saves nine&quot;
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<div>
(Lol @ Oct. 16 2006,11:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Eto: you may need to read up on some stuff on Dan's site to draw your own conclusions but it does seem that an extra heavy set is actually more effective for hypertrophy than a few lighter drop-sets. Just for fun, I have recently been throwing in a set of 10s after 5s using my current 15RM. It's good for a pump and a bit of extra work during post-5s.</div>
i have to say i like this also.when in my 5's i sometimes do an extra set of 10 with my 15rm,nice and slow,gets a good pump.
 
After reading the first post on this thread.

Well, how much is how much and is the much enough to make much difference.

Sounds like doubletalk, but that's what most of those study results read like to me.   I think many studies are undertaken by students at universities trying to do a thesis or other scholarly work.  Then they have to get it published, because they've now created all new information the world needs to know &quot;right now&quot;.

I don't dropset.  I lift heavy every workout, and when I dropset it's gonna be that last week before I SD.

If I can't make the full reps I still stay with the weight selected.  That's the way I understood the HST, and that's what I do.

Pssst  If you do produce more hormone by dropsets then is that amount produced going to make a difference?

I find it interesting how the writers of scholarly docs can &quot;emphasize increases&quot;, &quot;significant increases&quot; and still if you knew the absolute quantity it would be just above nil.

When Brian or some of the standard bearers for this workout training alter HST to a scholarly doc...then I'll look into it.
 
Few problems, women generally have a higher GH release than men especially after exercise and yet women do not generally have larger skeletal muscle mass so how important is it?

2. The response in GH seen in this study doesn't say it was because of drop sets it could very well be an artifact of increased work, this is one reason why GH response is generaly higher in endurance training than resistance training.

3. The second set isn't exactly a drop set as they still (I am assuming) used the same 3 minute rest between the Strength and subsequant set. Drop sets are an immediate subsequant set used to induce metabolic fatigue so this hardly justifies drops.
 
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(domineaux @ Oct. 17 2006,19:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After reading the first post on this thread.

Well, how much is how much and is the much enough to make much difference.

Sounds like doubletalk, but that's what most of those study results read like to me.   I think many studies are undertaken by students at universities trying to do a thesis or other scholarly work.  Then they have to get it published, because they've now created all new information the world needs to know &quot;right now&quot;.

I don't dropset.  I lift heavy every workout, and when I dropset it's gonna be that last week before I SD.

If I can't make the full reps I still stay with the weight selected.  That's the way I understood the HST, and that's what I do.

Pssst  If you do produce more hormone by dropsets then is that amount produced going to make a difference?

I find it interesting how the writers of scholarly docs can &quot;emphasize increases&quot;, &quot;significant increases&quot; and still if you knew the absolute quantity it would be just above nil.

When Brian or some of the standard bearers for this workout training alter HST to a scholarly doc...then I'll look into it.</div>
Well, HST is based on scientific research/studies. Have you checked if any of the studies HST is based on are made by students?

I don't know, but I don't think this study is made by students. If you click on the names participated in the study, you'll see that they also participated in 214-6211 other studies (if it's the same person though).

Every bit of the training and nutrition puzzle will give you better results. But how much each will give you is hard to say. For instance, you can't say that if you do drop sets, you will increase 15% more muscle, but if studies show that doing drop sets will increase growth hormone significant, I think they are worth incorporating in your workout. The same goes with fat and testosterone. Studies show that if you have a diet low in fat, your testosterone levels will drop. How much better results you will get from adding more fat in your diet is hard to say, but won't you add more fat in your diet (If you are on a low fat diet)? I like to use every bit of information to improve my training and nutrition. Science always comes up with better ways of doing things, so why not use it?

Blade like to do a drop set after the last set in the low rep ranges.
 
You've made 8 posts on this board and you're gonna do it your way. OKKKKKKK
 
You think that just because i am new to HST, I am new to training? Ok yourself...

And this is not &quot;my way&quot;. I use a routine mostly based on a routine made by Blade, and from tips I received from others on the forum.
 
But either way, you aren't going to notice anything from increasing your own growth hormone. The only way to get noticeable effects from growth hormone is to inject it, and that's not exactly legal. Remember, like Dan pointed out, they weren't even using real drop sets in this study. Also, it's been shown that all sorts of things increase GH, like using a shorter rest period, etc etc. But does any of that make a difference? In my experience - no.

I used to do metabolic work all the time. I quit a while ago and my progress hasn't slowed at all as a result.
 
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