Dual Factor HST - another fun option

mikeynov

Super Moderator
Staff member
Usual disclaimer: If you haven't performed several cycles of conventional HST, you have no business trying something like this.

Disclaimer #2: This is going to be long and drawn out. If you want to get to the meat of the idea, skip to the part where I tell you to start reading again if you have ADD. Then, if you're curious about the rationale/origin of this, skip back to the beginning at this point.

Another disclaimer: This is NOT an original idea by me per se. This is based heavily off of the following:

http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?topic=11342.0

That individual calls this variation HSIT, which he differentiates from conventional HST based on the different methodology. I, personally, have a problem with that, as it's clearly based on HST principles. However, what this author may (or may not) know is that he's also added "dual factor" logic on top of conventional HST, which leaves open some fun possibilities.

So, firstly, read the link above. The idea here is that we're going to alter the methodology of HST to make it auto-regulating, and use a pattern of accumulation --> intensification by first building up a higher volume at lower weights, then dropping volume in favor of heavier weights.

The original version, simplified goes like this (and PLEASE read the link above to really get the logic here):

Three sets of 10, starting submaximally.

When you can no longer do three sets of 10 (after, say, a couple of weeks), drop it to two sets of 10.

After that stops working, one set of 10.

After you peak out at a 10 rep max, then you move onto three sets of 5 with the same load.

Then work back up to the point where you can't get all three sets of 5, then drop to two.

Then to one set of five.

Take a break (strategic deconditioning) and start over, adding to the "starting" weights for each exercise.


So, this immediately reminded me of the pattern of the Pendlay/Rippetoe style 5 x 5. In the intermediate version of that program (one of them anyways), you start with 5 sets of 5 with the same weight (giving yourself a couple of weeks before approaching really hard stuff), work on that for ~a month, deload, then drop it to three sets of three.

So, the principle here is good. Dual factor is based on the notion that both fatigue and fitness are being developed simultaneously with any methodology. Fitness = the positive adaptations, and fatigue = the systemic drain, more or less. Fatigue is masking the increased fitness, and letting it dissipate (by deloading) can "reveal" the increase in fitness.

The general pattern on those routines is as above

Accumulation --> deload --> intensification

How does this relate to hypertrophy? It depends who you ask, really. I know of no research to substantiate whether this has any real bearing on growth, and I'd guess many people whom I respect would suggest it doesn't. Fair enough. However, from an enormous amount of "practical wisdom," I DO think it's safe to say that it works VERY well for performance. And insofar as strength gains ARE still one of the best predictors of long-term growth, I feel adding some performance logic on top of conventional HST may just be a Very Good Thing™.

Start Reading Again - For Those with ADD

Alright, if you've read this far, I know I have your attention, so now I'm going to tweak these basic ideas for my own Dual Factor HST variant.

Firstly, select a body of exercises as you normally would on HST. Nothing really changes here.

I'm going to actually increase the author's default volume in the heavier rep range, but I'm also going to add a more pronounced deload. I'm going to demonstrate the logic of this now:

Set Periodization
10,10,10 (three sets of 10)
10,10
10
deload
5,5,5,5,5
5,5,5
5

So, the logic here is to start your exercises at 3 sets of 10 reps a piece. We DEFINITELY want to start this submaximally. I'd guess that three sets of 10, where your third set was about to failure, is around your 15 rep max. So, structure the first two weeks of this program almost exactly as you would for a conventional HST cycle, planning on using your 15 rep max on the last session of the second week. However, instead of a set or two of 15, use three sets of 10.

After this, continue to use three sets of 10 until that stops working. E.g. if you get 10,10,9, okay, maybe take one more session to see if you can add a rep. Otherwise, don't bother, just do two sets of 10 the next time at the SAME weight. Then, start increasing session to session until you tap that out, and move it to only a single set of 10.

Now, the differences between my version and the original "HSIT" appear here, methodologically, because I want a formal deloading to occur after you tap out a single set of 10 in all your exercises. Why? You might be a little burnt out at this point, and you're going to switch back to higher volume again, so this will really be needed.

Bear in mind that not all exercises are necessarily going to be tapped out at this point, as they will all, technically speaking, auto-regulate along their own course. I would suggest that if you're even close to your 10 RM in most exercises, deload them all when the BIG exercises (squats/leg press/deads) have tapped out at your 10 rep max, and follow the logic below for all of the exercises.

What to do for the deload? There's a couple of options I can think of off the top of my head.

One is to take 5-7 days completely off. Depending on how you feel, this might seem like a welcome change at that point. From there, simply start at 5 sets of 5 reps for all of your exercises, starting at whatever load you managed for your 10 rep max.

Another is to assume that 5 sets of 5 is approximately your 8 rep max, which it is. So, use weights that will have you using about your 8 rep max at the end of a two week block. This will cause noticable zig zag with the previous loads you were using, since the previous loads were approaching 10 RM, providing a form of deloading by temporarily using lighter weight. I'd guess that first week in the shift of one set of 10 to 5 sets of 5 will largely call for loads lighter than the previous week.

Either way is a-okay.

And, that about does it. This is still HST logic here, which means:

* Always take SD's between cycles of, imho, at least 9 days, and something like 12-14 days may work better for some. Of course, take such an SD before starting a cycle like this.

* Exercise selection and frequency the same as always, e.g. full body stuff ~3 times a week.

* The pattern is still lighter weights --> heavier weights over the course of the cycle, and you should still attempt to increase the absolute load from cycle to cycle on all your exercises in the respective rep ranges.

The only real addition is the dual factor logic applied on top of this which, in effect, makes the HST cycle auto-regulate instead of having fixed, two week minicycles.

So, there you have it. This might be the longest variant of HST I've described to date, but I think it might interest some. I'll add a few more thoughts later on alternate set/rep schemes, including ways to make the cycle even longer or lower rep ranges in case you want to focus a bit more on strength versus hypertrophy.
 
Well, here's my first tweak...of my tweak!

Obviously, there's nothing about these rep ranges set in stone, it's just the pattern involved. No magic here.

As an example, instead of the author's original logic, you could easily do:

8,8,8
8,8
8
5,5,5
5,5
5

Any sort of pattern like that will work fine.

So, my first tweak is a default heavier rep range that one might choose if one were more interested in strength and/or, perhaps, as an alternative to upper body exercises which, in my practical experience, benefit from comparatively heavier weights past the noob stage relative to lower body. E.g. higher rep weights on lower body exercises still seem to generate lots of mass even in fairly advanced trainees, whereas I think higher rep weights on upper body exercises stop working well past some point.

So, the alternate heavier scheme might be:

5,5,5,5,5
5,5,5
5
deload
3,3,3,3,3
3,3,3
3

Same logic as above, starting with 5 sets of 5 and gradually reducing sets until one arrives at a 5 rep max weeks later. Afterwards, deload as per usual and then start at five sets of 3, collapsing eventually to a single top set of 3.

So yah, either using this as a replacement for upper body exercises (or even something like front squats, which, imho, suck ass at higher rep ranges) or even as an alternate scheme for a more focused strength routine.

On that latter point, if you did wish to use the above guidelines on a more pure strength routine, I'd suggest dropping frequency to only twice a week per muscle group.

Example:

Monday - Lower body
Tuesday - Upper body
Wednesday - off
Thursday - Lower body
Friday - Upper body
Saturday - off
Sunday - off

Due to the heavier weights, that's probably a safer default template if one were going to use this modified rep progression.
 
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(Aaron_F @ Nov. 12 2006,17:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">flipping labcoat

eat a steak and squat</div>
Dude, I eat like 1 lb of red meat per day!
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And I'm probably giving up back squats for now. That's right bitch, I'll be a push/puller!
 
One other note...

I'd probably, in general, avoid repeating weights in this cycle. This isn't about pushing strength limits per se, so if you fail to get a third or fifth set of whatever, don't sweat it. I think it will backfire if people treat the performance like the be all end all of the routine. It's more about the progression in load. Let it happen naturally.

Along those lines, I'd recommend minimum increments of 2.5 - 5 lbs per exercise, possibly up to 10 or so for some of the bigger ones. This will force you, session to session, to add weight to the bar. At that point, it's just a matter of following the procedure. The load is increasing regardless of what's happening with the actual sets. The only exception to this is in the middle of the routine, where you formally deload a bit. Also, you can repeat weights that you failed to achieve a volume goal on a particular day the next session. E.g. if you left off at 200 lbs for three sets of 10 (you only got 8 on the third set), leave it at 200 for two sets of 10, then start adding the standard increments again.

As to total cycle length, if I had to guess, I'd put that number between 8 and 12 weeks by doing the above and deloading in the middle. Perhaps less if you're really aggressive with the load increments, more if you're a little less aggressive.
 
This is similar to the linear progression I'm using for HST as far as the set reduction goes. (I'm reducing reps)
I think it's a great idea, still holding to the principles, but I'm not too keen on the idea of lighterweights for a week for a deload myself. MuscleNow uses something like that and I still burned out on the program. I only felt weaker, not rested at all. Better to do a real deload. After all, that's the secret of HST isn't it?
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Nov. 12 2006,19:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is similar to the linear progression I'm using for HST as far as the set reduction goes. (I'm reducing reps)
I think it's a great idea, still holding to the principles, but I'm not too keen on the idea of lighterweights for a week for a deload myself. MuscleNow uses something like that and I still burned out on the program. I only felt weaker, not rested at all. Better to do a real deload. After all, that's the secret of HST isn't it?</div>
That's why I put two potential avenues for deloading, actually.

For people who detrain rapidly, I think the zigzag approach will work a lot better than the 5-7 days off. You're still training the lifts, you're just backcycling temporarily. I mean, most people do this from minicycle to minicycle in HST anyways, so it'd be no more of a problem on this routine than a default HST routine, I'd think.

For those who can take that off but be fine, obviously 5-7 days will help dissipate some of the fatigue they've accumulated.
 
I'm in favour of the steadily increasing the workload, so keeping reps constant (with clustering or max-stim) over the whole cycle and increasing weight.

Going from 3x10 to 1x10 could result in doing less workload even with heavier weight (3x10x50lb=1500 total, 1x10x140lb=1400 total, which is less workload, despite being much heavier weight).

Not saying your program is bad, just asking have you considered how your plan is superior to volume constant HST (seeing as its so much simpler too).

As Arron said, take the labcoat off and lift dude
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(Peak_Power @ Nov. 12 2006,21:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm in favour of the steadily increasing the workload, so keeping reps constant (with clustering or max-stim) over the whole cycle and increasing weight.

Going from 3x10 to 1x10 could result in doing less workload even with heavier weight (3x10x50lb=1500 total, 1x10x140lb=1400 total, which is less workload, despite being much heavier weight).

Not saying your program is bad, just asking have you considered how your plan is superior to volume constant HST (seeing as its so much simpler too).

As Arron said, take the labcoat off and lift dude
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cool.gif
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</div>
Yes, I have considered how it might be better.

Varying volume = does cool things, particularly for performance imho. In this case, we do that via accumulation-->intensification.

That's why I called this dual factor HST
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edit: also, have you read other threads where I've detailed iterations of HST? At least a few of the models are predicated on constant volume. In fact, as far as I know, I was one of the first people on this board to advocate this as far back as 2002.

edit: also, to quote myself...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How does this relate to hypertrophy? It depends who you ask, really. I know of no research to substantiate whether this has any real bearing on growth, and I'd guess many people whom I respect would suggest it doesn't. Fair enough. However, from an enormous amount of &quot;practical wisdom,&quot; I DO think it's safe to say that it works VERY well for performance. And insofar as strength gains ARE still one of the best predictors of long-term growth, I feel adding some performance logic on top of conventional HST may just be a Very Good Thing™.</div>

The above is the very justification for adding this sort of logic into the mix as an alternative to a conventional approach. Even if it's just for a change of pace. Experimentation within reasonable guidelines seems warranted, and I'm pretty sure the &quot;shut up and lift&quot; attitude shouldn't be coming from members of this board, given the cerebral nature of things here
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Hey its cool dude I was only joking about the &quot;shut up and lift&quot;, though I think Arron wasn't
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I like your thinking, its obviously well thought through and though I am usually defensive about people tinkering and tampering with HST (as in my last post), I am fully supportive of your work.
 
<div>
(Peak_Power @ Nov. 13 2006,01:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey its cool dude I was only joking about the &quot;shut up and lift&quot;, though I think Arron wasn't
tounge.gif


I like your thinking, its obviously well thought through and though I am usually defensive about people tinkering and tampering with HST (as in my last post), I am fully supportive of your work.</div>
Haha, sorry if I came across as defensive. It's a labcoat defense mechanism!

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but really it's about coming up with (in my humble opinion) intelligent, novel variations of HST to keep things fresh. There are nearly endless iterations of &quot;what works&quot; as long as the basic principles are applied, so it's fun wanking on the topic.

I have lots of ideas in my head, and I don't mind sharing them :-x
 
Hey Mikey

How about your oipinion and the route I should approach with my current problem? As you know I am bit of a labcoat meself so...I'd be interested.

here's the link to save yer time Searching...
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I'd like a dollar for every tweak I've thought of but cast away, not saying anything. This one appealed to me since it's close to the one tweak I'm using (linear progression instead of zig-zagging) - like you guys, I think we have to stay close to the tree.
I posted about it here:    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin/ib314/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=14;t=12872
Reading the last posts, I had an &quot;aha&quot; as I realized that dual factor here means switching slightly from volume to intensity. Then returning to volume with intensity. That's kinda neat!
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