KillerRabbit
New Member
It is extremely embarrasing for a 190lb guy to be curling 10lb dumbbells for 15 reps :/ everyone gives me wierd looks. I dont feel like im even accomplishing anything by curling them either.... feels like a warm-up
Embarressing :(
- Thread starter KillerRabbit
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KillerRabbit
New Member
<div>
(Enigma66 @ May 23 2006,16:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Then why are you? Are you working your way up to 35's in 5 lb increments? If that's the case you'd be better served by doing something like 20, 25, 25, 30, 30 35, or 25, 25, 30, 30, 35, 35.</div>
i thought the principles of HST said linear constant progression of weights is key. and i cant do 35lbs 15 times
(Enigma66 @ May 23 2006,16:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Then why are you? Are you working your way up to 35's in 5 lb increments? If that's the case you'd be better served by doing something like 20, 25, 25, 30, 30 35, or 25, 25, 30, 30, 35, 35.</div>
i thought the principles of HST said linear constant progression of weights is key. and i cant do 35lbs 15 times
Well whatever your max is, I just guessed at 35 lbs. When you're using smaller weights the increments have to be smaller as well. If you want to use dumbbells and your max is 25 lbs for 15 reps then ideally you should be using dumbbell handles that you load plates on instead of solid dumbbells. Then you could adjust the weight in increments of 1.25 or 2.5 lbs.
What is your max for 15 reps? Without knowing that it is difficult to give you specific advice.
Personally I start at 15 pounds for the 15's and really concentrate on slow, perfect form movements with a nice inward curl at the top of each lift which I hold for 2 seconds. Each rep takes me about 8 to 10 seconds and I am only good for 1 set at that rep range. That "burns" more than using 65 pounders for 5's. Besides, it is amazing how I would see the speed lifters at the gym watch me doing curls, look at my arms and all of a sudden come to the realization that being a speedster gets you no-where in the gym, especially on exercises meant to help your connective tissue and bones. In the not-too-distant future, these smirkers will probably be coming to you for advice.
Personally I start at 15 pounds for the 15's and really concentrate on slow, perfect form movements with a nice inward curl at the top of each lift which I hold for 2 seconds. Each rep takes me about 8 to 10 seconds and I am only good for 1 set at that rep range. That "burns" more than using 65 pounders for 5's. Besides, it is amazing how I would see the speed lifters at the gym watch me doing curls, look at my arms and all of a sudden come to the realization that being a speedster gets you no-where in the gym, especially on exercises meant to help your connective tissue and bones. In the not-too-distant future, these smirkers will probably be coming to you for advice.
Good point JW! I got carried away with the question and forgot that he is pretty new to lifting and should really be doing compounds.
KillerRabbit, aside from the fact that it would be best not to worry about isos right now, a good rule of thumb is to take around 5% of your 15RM and reduce the weight by that each session. Obviously, this is not always possible and it's not necessary to be exact. So, often you can just add 5 or 10lbs a session up to your RM weight. However, in this case, if you were working up to a 35lb db in 5lb increments you would be adding 14% to the load each time! Your starting weight at 10lbs would be only 28% of your RM weight. Very light, as you pointed out! Try to start each meso cycle with a weight which is at least 50% of your RM weight (mine are usually around 70%).
So instead of, say, 10,15,20,25,30,35
You might do 20,25,25,30,30,35 or 25,25,30,30,35,35
(oh, which is exactly what Enigma suggested!
)
Hope that makes some sense?
So instead of, say, 10,15,20,25,30,35
You might do 20,25,25,30,30,35 or 25,25,30,30,35,35
(oh, which is exactly what Enigma suggested!
Hope that makes some sense?
KillerRabbit
New Member
it makse sense. so increase my lifts by %5 of my max in that rep scheme?
and no im not new to lifting. I'm new to HST. I had been doing MAX-OT for the last 6 months but i got bored with it.
and no im not new to lifting. I'm new to HST. I had been doing MAX-OT for the last 6 months but i got bored with it.
KillerRabbit
New Member
<div>
(Lol @ May 23 2006,18:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">KillerRabbit, aside from the fact that it would be best not to worry about isos right now, a good rule of thumb is to take around 5% of your 15RM and reduce the weight by that each session. Obviously, this is not always possible and it's not necessary to be exact. So, often you can just add 5 or 10lbs a session up to your RM weight. However, in this case, if you were working up to a 35lb db in 5lb increments you would be adding 14% to the load each time! Your starting weight at 10lbs would be only 28% of your RM weight. Very light, as you pointed out! Try to start each meso cycle with a weight which is at least 50% of your RM weight (mine are usually around 70%).
So instead of, say, 10,15,20,25,30,35
You might do 20,25,25,30,30,35 or 25,25,30,30,35,35
(oh, which is exactly what Enigma suggested!
)
Hope that makes some sense?</div>
should i use smaller increments on all of the isolation ones?
(Lol @ May 23 2006,18:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">KillerRabbit, aside from the fact that it would be best not to worry about isos right now, a good rule of thumb is to take around 5% of your 15RM and reduce the weight by that each session. Obviously, this is not always possible and it's not necessary to be exact. So, often you can just add 5 or 10lbs a session up to your RM weight. However, in this case, if you were working up to a 35lb db in 5lb increments you would be adding 14% to the load each time! Your starting weight at 10lbs would be only 28% of your RM weight. Very light, as you pointed out! Try to start each meso cycle with a weight which is at least 50% of your RM weight (mine are usually around 70%).
So instead of, say, 10,15,20,25,30,35
You might do 20,25,25,30,30,35 or 25,25,30,30,35,35
(oh, which is exactly what Enigma suggested!
Hope that makes some sense?</div>
should i use smaller increments on all of the isolation ones?
KillerRabbit
New Member
<div>
(colby2152 @ May 23 2006,19:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">YES
And it won't hurt to stick on a weight for a day or two like in the 25,25,30,30,35,35 example.</div>
is it ok to have the weights overlapping like that? doing 120 for 15 reps and then a few weeks later doing it for 10 weeks?
also did i set up my DB curls right?
(colby2152 @ May 23 2006,19:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">YES
And it won't hurt to stick on a weight for a day or two like in the 25,25,30,30,35,35 example.</div>
is it ok to have the weights overlapping like that? doing 120 for 15 reps and then a few weeks later doing it for 10 weeks?
also did i set up my DB curls right?
KillerRabbit
New Member
<div>
(Old and Grey @ May 23 2006,17:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What is your max for 15 reps? Without knowing that it is difficult to give you specific advice.
Personally I start at 15 pounds for the 15's and really concentrate on slow, perfect form movements with a nice inward curl at the top of each lift which I hold for 2 seconds. Each rep takes me about 8 to 10 seconds and I am only good for 1 set at that rep range. That "burns" more than using 65 pounders for 5's. Besides, it is amazing how I would see the speed lifters at the gym watch me doing curls, look at my arms and all of a sudden come to the realization that being a speedster gets you no-where in the gym, especially on exercises meant to help your connective tissue and bones. In the not-too-distant future, these smirkers will probably be coming to you for advice.
</div>
my 15 rep max for DB curls is 30's
(Old and Grey @ May 23 2006,17:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What is your max for 15 reps? Without knowing that it is difficult to give you specific advice.
Personally I start at 15 pounds for the 15's and really concentrate on slow, perfect form movements with a nice inward curl at the top of each lift which I hold for 2 seconds. Each rep takes me about 8 to 10 seconds and I am only good for 1 set at that rep range. That "burns" more than using 65 pounders for 5's. Besides, it is amazing how I would see the speed lifters at the gym watch me doing curls, look at my arms and all of a sudden come to the realization that being a speedster gets you no-where in the gym, especially on exercises meant to help your connective tissue and bones. In the not-too-distant future, these smirkers will probably be coming to you for advice.
my 15 rep max for DB curls is 30's
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">should i use smaller increments on all of the isolation ones?</div>
Well, yes and no.
%age would stay the same but the actual weight increment is halved if you are using dbs rather than a bb.
So it's not so much that it's an isolation exercise issue but more that it's a single arm, db exercise rather than a two arm, bb exercise.
As you must have realised, if you could do curls with 100lb bb for your RM and you wanted to decrease it by 5% you would load a 95lbs bar. But with dumbells, in order to decrease each by 5%, you would need to use two 47.5 pounders. That's the problem. It's not likely your gym will have such things. At my gym the dbs go up in 10lb increments between 60 and 150lbs which is a real pain. So you end up doing the best you can or getting some wrist weight thingies that I can't be bothered with. Or, you do a barbell exercise instead.
So, you can still use the 5% guideline but be sure to use 5% of your db RM weight and not 5% of the total combined weight. ie. Using the example above, you would use 2.5lb increments for each db and 5lb for bb.
Obviously, the lighter the weight the more difficult a nice progression becomes using dumbells which is what you have found.
Well, yes and no.
%age would stay the same but the actual weight increment is halved if you are using dbs rather than a bb.
So it's not so much that it's an isolation exercise issue but more that it's a single arm, db exercise rather than a two arm, bb exercise.
As you must have realised, if you could do curls with 100lb bb for your RM and you wanted to decrease it by 5% you would load a 95lbs bar. But with dumbells, in order to decrease each by 5%, you would need to use two 47.5 pounders. That's the problem. It's not likely your gym will have such things. At my gym the dbs go up in 10lb increments between 60 and 150lbs which is a real pain. So you end up doing the best you can or getting some wrist weight thingies that I can't be bothered with. Or, you do a barbell exercise instead.
So, you can still use the 5% guideline but be sure to use 5% of your db RM weight and not 5% of the total combined weight. ie. Using the example above, you would use 2.5lb increments for each db and 5lb for bb.
Obviously, the lighter the weight the more difficult a nice progression becomes using dumbells which is what you have found.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">is it ok to have the weights overlapping like that? doing 120 for 15 reps and then a few weeks later doing it for 10 weeks?
also did i set up my DB curls right? </div>
Everything looks fine... zizgagging (the repetition of the same load for a given exercise between phases) is acceptable and no problem.
also did i set up my DB curls right? </div>
Everything looks fine... zizgagging (the repetition of the same load for a given exercise between phases) is acceptable and no problem.
like what most of the guys on the site are saying, I wouldn't worry about the Isos...
but personally when I do Isos (not neglecting compounds of course) I don't increment the same way as with the compounds, I just use a weight I feel comfortable using, do as much reps for as much sets as I "feel" I need, and just concentrate on the form, and the stretch. when I feel like it's getting to light I up the weight at the next workout
reason behind this is, the real mass builder is the compounds, and the muscle is possibly under heavier load during the compounds at 15s than the isos at 5's anyway so there is where the incrementing matters (compounds), the Iso is where I get to work the stretch point and "feel" the muscle getting pumped so I start with a weight I won't feel rediculous with (like say a 25 lb as opposed to a 10 lb dumbbell)
but personally when I do Isos (not neglecting compounds of course) I don't increment the same way as with the compounds, I just use a weight I feel comfortable using, do as much reps for as much sets as I "feel" I need, and just concentrate on the form, and the stretch. when I feel like it's getting to light I up the weight at the next workout
reason behind this is, the real mass builder is the compounds, and the muscle is possibly under heavier load during the compounds at 15s than the isos at 5's anyway so there is where the incrementing matters (compounds), the Iso is where I get to work the stretch point and "feel" the muscle getting pumped so I start with a weight I won't feel rediculous with (like say a 25 lb as opposed to a 10 lb dumbbell)
Fausto
HST Expert
IMO
Drop the isos's for sure, and put them back on during the 5's then you can look at a more serious load also the most efficient d/b exercise seems to be the incline d/b curl, because of the stretch.
Anyways - use reverse close grip weighted chin ups (that'll hgit your arms big time) and weighted dips with chin touching upper chest (will get your chest nicely but your triceps has to work too!)
Then for triceps just do skull crushers or any other tricep extension variation, I like to use the cables while lying on a bench, it works out to be the same anyway.
Use just one set of each during the 5's, if you really want to kill them, then drop set both, you'll be having a hard time shaving soon!
NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE HERE SO WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU!
These are just opinions that we have tried and worked for us!
Drop the isos's for sure, and put them back on during the 5's then you can look at a more serious load also the most efficient d/b exercise seems to be the incline d/b curl, because of the stretch.
Anyways - use reverse close grip weighted chin ups (that'll hgit your arms big time) and weighted dips with chin touching upper chest (will get your chest nicely but your triceps has to work too!)
Then for triceps just do skull crushers or any other tricep extension variation, I like to use the cables while lying on a bench, it works out to be the same anyway.
Use just one set of each during the 5's, if you really want to kill them, then drop set both, you'll be having a hard time shaving soon!
NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE HERE SO WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU!
These are just opinions that we have tried and worked for us!
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
without reading every post thats replied...my quick advice would be.
If you are just beginning lifting stick with the basic compounds like the guys said.
Also make sure you are testing your maxes correctly and not starting to low or too high with the weights.
And last who cares what anyone thinks, the hell with the guys starring at you in the gym with the weird looks.
Some of my best gains in my life came after and injury were I was forced to use way less weight, but I learned perfect form and slowed down and used Time under tension and made good gains.
This is something I think a lot of guys dont understand, hell I know they dont understand this.
But the guy in the gym doing 65 pound presses with a 4-2-1 tempo is one strong guy, it's just that he is going slow and using great form, I gurantee that guys could push 100+ with sloppy ass form but he knows better...I see it all the time.
Good form = Good gains, and hopefully injury free
If you are just beginning lifting stick with the basic compounds like the guys said.
Also make sure you are testing your maxes correctly and not starting to low or too high with the weights.
And last who cares what anyone thinks, the hell with the guys starring at you in the gym with the weird looks.
Some of my best gains in my life came after and injury were I was forced to use way less weight, but I learned perfect form and slowed down and used Time under tension and made good gains.
This is something I think a lot of guys dont understand, hell I know they dont understand this.
But the guy in the gym doing 65 pound presses with a 4-2-1 tempo is one strong guy, it's just that he is going slow and using great form, I gurantee that guys could push 100+ with sloppy ass form but he knows better...I see it all the time.
Good form = Good gains, and hopefully injury free