Factoring bodyweight into compond lifts

[Robert B]

Howdy all, I've read the HST articles and lurked for months, but this is my first post. I apologize for its length.

I'm 39, not particularly athletic, and haven't worked out to speak of for over a decade. I'm effectively a newbie weightlifter. However, after finding the HST method, I joined the Y and tried my first vanilla HST cycle a couple of months ago. I was somewhat sloppy in weight progressions & diet, but I definitely noticed some results (probably no surprise since again,  I was totally unconditioned).

Anyway I want to get more serious about HST, but I have a question about Bodyweight Factor:

When figuring weights for dips, chins, deads, squats etc, how much of my bodyweight do I figure in? I mean, if Imy 10RM for weighted chins is 40 lbs, and I'm supposed to start w/ 75% of my 10RM, I don't use .75 X 40lbs = 30lbs for my first workout of 10s, right?

I'm thinking 9/10 bodyweight  for dips and chins and maybe 2/3 or 3/4 bodyweight for deads and squats. Does anyone know for sure what these factors should be?

This is important to me because as a 230lb newbie, my bodyweight is a significant part of these lifts.

 

[Lol]

I just count my full bodyweight for dips and chins but I don't count it at all for deads or squats. For the latter, I try to always increment at least 10lbs each session. I think that's good enough for a decent weight progression.

Looking at your situation, for chins your 10 RM is bw+40 = 270lbs. What I would do is work back 10lbs a session so you would have this for the 10s:

bw, bw, +10, +20, +30, +40

Obviously for 15s you would need to do some sort of pull down to get the reps if you have access to a machine. You could also use it for the first day of 10s and then swich to chins on the second w/o.

Incidentally, at 230lbs b/w and not having lifted for long, adding 40lb for your 10RM is very good. All the best.

 

[Bahiana]

You can also do something like this:

Studies show that you lift about 75% of your bodyweight during squats and 90% during chins and dips.

So if you weigh 230lbs, you lift 207lbs during chins. Adding the 40lbs, your 10RM is 247lbs. You could use increment jumps of 5% each workout for each exercise, and the program would look like this during the 10s:

1)               2)               3)              4)               5)               6)
185,25       197,6          209,95       222,3       234,65          247

The first workouts I would use assisted chin ups or pull downs.

To get good increments for squats and deads, adding your bodyweight can be essential. However, this is mostly for someone who is overweight, and can't squat "squat"

For instance: Some guy weighing 300lbs, mostly fat. His 10RM for squats is 100lbs. With 5% increments, this would only be 5lbs jumps per workout. This is not so good for hypertrophy.

In reality he lifts 325lbs (75% of bw + 100lbs), and 5% increments would be l6lbs per workout.

 

[Totentanz]

How do you only lift 90% of your weight during chins and dips? You are completely off the floor, supported only by your hands. I'd say you're probably supporting your full weight, unless somehow 10% of your weight is magically transported to some other dimension until the set is over.

I do like Lol - factor in BW during dips and chins, but not during other compounds like deads and squats. Someone who is 300 lbs and fat shouldn't be worrying about hypertrophy - they should be cutting down, and focusing on that only. 300 lbs and fat is not healthy at all. For normal guys like all of us, I can't see any reason to add bodyweight in to your squat and dead poundages.

 

[Bahiana]

<div>
(Totentanz @ Oct. 29 2006,21:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How do you only lift 90% of your weight during chins and dips?  You are completely off the floor, supported only by your hands.  I'd say you're probably supporting your full weight, unless somehow 10% of your weight is magically transported to some other dimension until the set is over.

I do like Lol - factor in BW during dips and chins, but not during other compounds like deads and squats.  Someone who is 300 lbs and fat shouldn't be worrying about hypertrophy - they should be cutting down, and focusing on that only.  300 lbs and fat is not healthy at all.  For normal guys like all of us, I can't see any reason to add bodyweight in to your squat and dead poundages.</div>
1. You don't lift your arms during chins and dips, and they weigh about 10% of your bodyweight. Or so I have read.

2. Yes, I know about that, and that's what I said (but now that I look at it, I was a bit unclear). We should not worry about adding bodyweight to squats and deadlifts. But if for some reason a heavy and weak guy wanted some more mass, he could get bigger increments from adding bodyweight. And even if he is cutting, I think bigger increments would be better.

 

[Robert B]

Thanks Bahiana &amp; Lol. This is really useful for me because I can just plug these factors into the little HST workout wizard I made in Excel and let it take care of figuring my progressions.


Also, I can't do 10 chin-ups w/ a 40 lb weight; I cooked those numbers up because I thought they'd make a clear example. In fact I can't do 10 chins with no weight...yet

 

[Smee]

<div>
(Robert B @ Oct. 30 2006,09:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, I can't do 10 chin-ups w/ a 40 lb weight; I cooked those numbers up because I thought they'd make a clear example. In fact I can't do 10 chins with no weight...yet

</div>
Phew, I need to go apologize to my folks for all the nasty things I said about my genetic inheritance

. You really had me going, I am also fairly new, but have got my training and diet dialled in real good for the last 6 months,however adding weight on the 10's is still a dream at this stage.

After reading your first post I was about to retire to my corner and ponder scrabble as pastime.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Robert B]

<div>
(Smee @ Oct. 31 2006,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After reading your first post I was about to retire to my corner and ponder scrabble as pastime.</div>
Hehe I'm glad I could inspire you, Smee!  

I'm thinking it will be a while before I need to worry about weighting my chin-ups too - 230lb is a lot of weight already.